23 [Expert] How to Optimise Your Career Site for Conversions with Employee Stories | Brie Mason, Employer Brand Mason

[00:00:00] Welcome to the VMJPod where we feature industry experts on the tools practitioners and video

[00:00:06] my job customers to help you activate your employer brand strategy and EVP.

[00:00:10] Hey there, it's Britt here with this episode of the VMJPod.

[00:00:14] And today I am speaking to Brie Mason about how to activate an EVP specifically through

[00:00:20] the career side.

[00:00:21] Now, Brie is an employee brand thought leader.

[00:00:23] She is the founder of employer brand Mason and she has over 18 years experience dedicated

[00:00:29] to building multi award winning employer brands in the APAC region.

[00:00:33] So here is what you can expect from today's conversation.

[00:00:36] Why insufficient content quality and a poor user experience is negatively impacting your

[00:00:41] career site conversion rate, practical ways that we can dive below the surface for our

[00:00:47] candidates and answer their key questions.

[00:00:49] And finally, Brie's number one recommendation for building any employer brand which is

[00:00:55] through employee efficacy.

[00:00:57] So if you want to understand how to bring your EVP to life through the lived experience

[00:01:02] of your people and optimize your career site for conversion, then this is the VMJPod

[00:01:08] episode for you.

[00:01:10] Brie Mason, welcome to the VMJPod.

[00:01:13] I'm so excited to have you here.

[00:01:14] So thank you for joining.

[00:01:16] Thanks for having me.

[00:01:17] Pleasure.

[00:01:18] You actually joined us as a co-host on the second half of last year on Talking

[00:01:25] Time Live.

[00:01:26] Yeah.

[00:01:27] So you are familiar face, I'm sure to many people who are tuning in.

[00:01:33] I've listened to almost all of those sessions now because I was off having my

[00:01:35] daughter and I love the way that you are able to communicate the many ways to

[00:01:40] activate an EVP.

[00:01:42] So that's what I want to dive into today.

[00:01:45] That big topic of how you actually go about doing that, how you bring an EVP

[00:01:49] to life.

[00:01:51] But I want to make it really specific to the career site.

[00:01:55] So let's start by, I guess, setting the scene for our listeners.

[00:02:00] What is the role of the career site in context of an employer brand strategy?

[00:02:08] I think essentially your career site really serves as that really powerful

[00:02:13] tool for promoting your employer brand and communicating your EVP to

[00:02:17] prospective candidates.

[00:02:19] I think by really thinking about how you're leveraging that platform, you

[00:02:22] can attract, engage, convert top talent and those that are more aligned to

[00:02:27] your culture and your organisational goals.

[00:02:30] I like to, when I talk to my clients, I kind of picture your career site

[00:02:34] as the storefront of your company shop on a really busy street.

[00:02:39] It's like the eye-catching display in that front window that makes people

[00:02:43] stop when they're walking past and take a closer look.

[00:02:45] So just as a great display does, it's got it's like a really cool set

[00:02:50] of stuff going on, but it's putting out there really what's unique about that shop

[00:02:55] and it's kind of the best items are in that front window.

[00:02:58] Just like that, I guess your career site should also be highlighting all the

[00:03:01] awesome things that I guess that are on offer and what it's like to work

[00:03:06] for your organisation to really entice potential candidates to step inside the

[00:03:11] shop to learn more about what you've got to offer.

[00:03:16] I think there's so many roles at play.

[00:03:18] Obviously, it's showcasing your employer brand and obviously there's so many

[00:03:22] ways in which your employer brand is promoted and a lot of those you don't

[00:03:26] necessarily have control over.

[00:03:28] So this is the one place where you control that narrative.

[00:03:32] So you can put your best foot forward, really position and present

[00:03:36] the organisation in the way that you want it to be seen to protect

[00:03:40] potential talent, also to existing as well, obviously.

[00:03:44] It's a place to communicate your ABP.

[00:03:47] So by clearly articulating the benefits of working for your company,

[00:03:52] I think as well as not just communicating, it's then the showing

[00:03:55] in depth evidence of how you deliver on it.

[00:03:59] It's, I guess, attracting more of the right people who are resonating

[00:04:02] with that.

[00:04:04] I think there's an opportunity for a role for it to engage and educate

[00:04:08] candidates.

[00:04:09] So thinking about it, how I guess people would visit that career site

[00:04:15] at a number of stages of that consideration journey, how do you really

[00:04:19] provide them more depth of insight around everything they want to know

[00:04:23] and kind of answer those key questions they would have to help

[00:04:27] candidates make a really informed decision?

[00:04:32] And the last one and probably the key one would be around its role

[00:04:36] is to really drive conversions and applications.

[00:04:40] So ultimately, it becomes the centre of your digital talent

[00:04:45] attraction strategy.

[00:04:46] Not even just digital, all kind of all your marketing efforts

[00:04:50] are really driving back to that place as that place to really

[00:04:54] essentially, hopefully educate and convert people into applicants.

[00:05:00] So I think a number of things I've covered there, but I think

[00:05:03] it's really important that you have a really kick-ass career

[00:05:07] website.

[00:05:08] Yes, yes.

[00:05:09] And I want to talk to you about having a career site that is

[00:05:13] optimised for conversions.

[00:05:15] So we will get into that.

[00:05:16] But first of all, I love the analogy of it being your storefront.

[00:05:19] I think that's wonderful.

[00:05:21] And also at Video My Job, we talk a lot about keeping candidates

[00:05:24] within your ecosystem and the career site, like it's your home.

[00:05:29] You can keep them there.

[00:05:30] You can engage them.

[00:05:31] You can answer their key questions.

[00:05:35] And I think sometimes we get a little bit distracted by the

[00:05:37] shininess of social media and all of the other platforms where

[00:05:40] we need to be, where we have the storefront there that

[00:05:44] needs attention.

[00:05:45] Yes.

[00:05:46] And in many cases it needs attention.

[00:05:49] Oh yeah.

[00:05:49] And another thing, there's often a problem that I hear

[00:05:53] though with coming back to, I guess, doing all of these

[00:05:57] weird and wonderful things with our career site is sometimes

[00:05:59] employee branders or TA folks don't actually have like

[00:06:04] the ownership of the site or they don't control it.

[00:06:08] So I hear that a lot in conversation with our

[00:06:10] Video My Job customers, but I wanted to know, is that

[00:06:12] something you hear and are there other challenges really

[00:06:16] that come up for you around activating your EVP through

[00:06:19] the career site specifically?

[00:06:21] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:06:23] I think in a job search people are just in a mindset

[00:06:27] of talent or what's going on for them.

[00:06:28] People are really looking to change their lives.

[00:06:31] And what I see is that they're really not getting much

[00:06:34] information about what that means.

[00:06:37] So the organisations aren't going, putting much in-depth

[00:06:41] information out there, but they're very much basically

[00:06:44] begging candidates to apply.

[00:06:46] So you think about it a lot of time it is just job ads

[00:06:48] that are in the market and they're all apply now, apply

[00:06:51] now, but there's nothing below that really surface level

[00:06:53] claims around the wire work here if it's lucky to be

[00:06:55] a paragraph of that in a job ad.

[00:06:59] So I think I've been shocked in my 15 years, but

[00:07:03] particularly last five years of working, consulting

[00:07:05] across organisations all shapes and sizes.

[00:07:08] I'm shocked by how many companies still don't have

[00:07:10] any content on their careers website that really

[00:07:13] sells their EVP or even if they don't have an EVP

[00:07:16] it's kind of providing the what's in it for me,

[00:07:18] the with them of joining the organisation.

[00:07:22] What I see is typically or not typically in a lot

[00:07:26] of cases the company careers website will then have a

[00:07:30] careers link which often then links out and redirects

[00:07:34] to a separate website, which is what's housing all

[00:07:37] of their role vacancies.

[00:07:38] So where people are searching and applying and

[00:07:40] often that's a page or a couple of pages that

[00:07:42] are hosted by the ATS.

[00:07:44] So then if that's what the careers websites are

[00:07:48] for organisations, they're often limited in the

[00:07:51] functionality of what you can put on those pages.

[00:07:53] And often there's a lack of customisation that

[00:07:56] ATS careers page offers as well.

[00:07:58] That starts to look very similar across the websites I see.

[00:08:02] So in the case where you've just got those pages

[00:08:04] for your careers website, you're then really relying

[00:08:07] on relatively poorly written job ads, which

[00:08:12] essentially are lift and shift from a position

[00:08:13] description and you're relying on those job ads

[00:08:16] to do the job of successfully promoting

[00:08:19] the whole organisation as that place to work.

[00:08:23] So I guess when we're relying on that we can

[00:08:24] probably, it's fair to assume that the conversion

[00:08:27] rates are quite low in the career website

[00:08:29] as a source of applicants.

[00:08:32] There are a number of other scenarios I guess

[00:08:34] where there's an issue with that when organisations

[00:08:36] are relying on their ATS to host that careers

[00:08:39] page and those simple pages.

[00:08:43] You're jumping off, that click is a jump off

[00:08:44] from another website and that's a bad user

[00:08:47] experience and the drop off rate really

[00:08:50] increases at that point.

[00:08:52] And when that web page is really owned

[00:08:54] and housed, I guess by the ATS provider, you've

[00:08:57] got no visibility of the site performance,

[00:08:59] the analytics, kind of what's going on.

[00:09:01] You've got no idea of what pages people are reading,

[00:09:03] what they're interested in, what they're doing.

[00:09:04] You can't then tweak any of that either,

[00:09:08] which is also an issue when you're running

[00:09:09] digital campaigns.

[00:09:11] So if you're doing paid social or even

[00:09:13] organic social programmatic campaigns, you don't

[00:09:16] necessarily have anywhere to send traffic

[00:09:18] to where then you can build a pool of people

[00:09:22] to retarget with your advertising or you can't

[00:09:25] understand how effective those campaigns have

[00:09:27] been. So that's one big scenario I really see

[00:09:31] where those career sites are relying on the ATS pages.

[00:09:36] Another scenario is when it is sitting

[00:09:40] on the company site, it's often then you're

[00:09:43] limited by that really clunky, often clunky,

[00:09:45] the functionality of the CMS, the website

[00:09:49] they're using and what the TA team are able

[00:09:53] to make happen, to make that work for them

[00:09:56] in careers. Often it's very limited

[00:09:58] page designs or functionality or whatever

[00:10:01] it may be. That job is also often left

[00:10:06] up to the TA team to have to design

[00:10:09] their own section. So they're the ones

[00:10:12] designing the navigation, the site structure,

[00:10:14] they're the ones writing the content and creating

[00:10:19] the content. Sorry, but TA people are not web

[00:10:20] designers, they're not experts.

[00:10:23] Not the area of expertise.

[00:10:25] They're not the area of expertise.

[00:10:25] It's totally different expertise, right?

[00:10:27] They're the ones that are designing and building

[00:10:29] and creating that section of the company

[00:10:31] website. As a result, you often get

[00:10:34] a poor user experience, a really clunky

[00:10:36] and uninspiring career site which is

[00:10:39] probably impacting the impression of your

[00:10:40] brand. I think another big one would be

[00:10:45] insufficient content quality.

[00:10:48] I think career site should have really

[00:10:50] high quality content and that could be

[00:10:51] obviously really nice visuals, imagery,

[00:10:54] photography, engaging videos, really informative

[00:10:57] written materials. I think that's really

[00:11:00] important to effectively communicate and

[00:11:01] bring to life your EVP.

[00:11:05] I think it's then finding the right

[00:11:07] balance of that. So how do we make sure

[00:11:09] that content is of high quality but also

[00:11:12] still feels really authentic, incredible

[00:11:15] and not just too much fancy marketing

[00:11:16] spin that sounds too good to be true?

[00:11:20] That's what I'd say. They're probably

[00:11:21] the two main scenarios where people look

[00:11:23] at two different scenarios when you're

[00:11:25] dealing with careers websites and then

[00:11:27] the challenges associated with each of

[00:11:29] those.

[00:11:30] So if someone's listening who they're

[00:11:32] either in bucket one with the

[00:11:34] two or three page AGS setup or

[00:11:37] they're dealing with a very clunky

[00:11:40] website that they may have designed

[00:11:41] themselves and they're not a subject

[00:11:44] matter expertise, they're not the subject

[00:11:46] matter expert.

[00:11:48] What is I guess one of your top tips

[00:11:50] or top tips to help them bring their

[00:11:54] EVP to life through the content on

[00:11:56] their career site? So you said you

[00:11:58] know we need substance, we need a

[00:12:00] balance of different formats, the

[00:12:04] quality still needs to be there but

[00:12:06] what are some more tips that we can

[00:12:07] actually help the listeners attract

[00:12:10] the right talent?

[00:12:11] Yeah, you know I think what really

[00:12:15] hits home is real stories from actual

[00:12:20] employees. I've been pushing this

[00:12:22] agenda for over 15 years now.

[00:12:25] Those are no big, I'm always

[00:12:27] harping on about that and I think

[00:12:29] as a first organization like over 15,

[00:12:31] 16 years ago at Telstra to actually

[00:12:33] use real people and in our

[00:12:35] photography and that was like what

[00:12:37] were you?

[00:12:38] Yes and it was so

[00:12:42] you're a trailblazer.

[00:12:42] I was disruptive at the time.

[00:12:44] It was like wow it's really not that

[00:12:46] crazy, but I think when you

[00:12:50] share the experiences and the

[00:12:51] testimonials of people and employees

[00:12:53] it's really painting a much more

[00:12:54] vivid picture of what it's like to

[00:12:57] be part of the team.

[00:12:58] You're building more of a connection

[00:12:59] with the organization.

[00:13:02] I think authentic storytelling really

[00:13:03] adds credibility and believability to

[00:13:05] your messages then.

[00:13:07] Another one is it surprises me that

[00:13:11] doesn't happen is that I always when

[00:13:12] I'm building up websites I'll always

[00:13:14] have a whole section which goes

[00:13:16] deep into the EVP.

[00:13:17] So whether you want to call it the

[00:13:18] while work here or different ways of

[00:13:22] kind of labeling that essentially

[00:13:24] you're going to bring to life

[00:13:26] the pillars of your proposition not

[00:13:27] just in this high level summarized

[00:13:29] copy. This is the place to go

[00:13:32] deep where you're able to truly

[00:13:34] demonstrate what that means in your

[00:13:36] organization.

[00:13:37] So for example career development

[00:13:39] every company can offer career

[00:13:40] development but what does that mean

[00:13:42] in your organization?

[00:13:43] So that high level messaging being

[00:13:46] so common and what's the reality of

[00:13:48] that in your organization and

[00:13:50] how do you do development is that

[00:13:52] your focus on learning.

[00:13:53] So what training courses are you

[00:13:55] providing people?

[00:13:56] Is it career pathways?

[00:13:57] What do those pathways actually look

[00:13:59] like? Success stories of people who

[00:14:01] have started here and gone there.

[00:14:04] Mentorship programs, leadership

[00:14:05] whatever it might be.

[00:14:06] I think it's a bit time to go deep

[00:14:08] on what that looks like to help

[00:14:09] people who want to do their

[00:14:10] research get the answers they need

[00:14:13] so they can kind of fairly

[00:14:14] weigh up their options.

[00:14:15] Evie Yeah and is that usually

[00:14:17] a mix of say words directly from

[00:14:20] the people in the organization as

[00:14:21] well as say someone like yourself

[00:14:23] talking on behalf of the org?

[00:14:25] Jess Yeah always I always think

[00:14:27] about well how can you

[00:14:30] tell what it is so what content

[00:14:32] or copy or visuals whatever it

[00:14:34] might be to simply bring to life

[00:14:35] what that is but then also show

[00:14:38] the proof and evidence that

[00:14:39] that's actually happening.

[00:14:40] So then real life stories of

[00:14:42] people then basically evidencing

[00:14:44] and just showing what that means

[00:14:46] to someone working in tech

[00:14:47] versus someone working in retail

[00:14:48] whatever it might be making

[00:14:50] it kind of real believable

[00:14:51] and you can connect people

[00:14:53] and to people on a different level.

[00:14:54] Evie And would you sometimes

[00:14:57] break that down like a page

[00:14:58] for each pillar specifically?

[00:15:00] Jess I've had some where gosh

[00:15:03] I remember when we went layers

[00:15:04] and layers down because it felt

[00:15:05] like there was some half of those

[00:15:06] the pillars of the proposition

[00:15:07] where we had so much

[00:15:09] underneath that is

[00:15:10] to what we would offer there

[00:15:12] that allowed us then

[00:15:13] to create different pages

[00:15:15] so then when you're thinking

[00:15:16] about your marketing communications

[00:15:18] whether it be social content

[00:15:19] you've actually got a really

[00:15:21] great landing page or place

[00:15:22] to direct that traffic to

[00:15:24] when you're talking about

[00:15:25] those things specifically

[00:15:26] rather than driving people to

[00:15:27] your homepage your careers website

[00:15:29] every time.

[00:15:30] It was a place yet

[00:15:31] that they really think about

[00:15:32] how do you build out that

[00:15:33] and actually create

[00:15:35] keep people in your site longer

[00:15:38] saying it's like how do you create

[00:15:39] as a destination

[00:15:40] when people can explore

[00:15:41] choose their own adventure

[00:15:42] learn more about the organization

[00:15:43] and just feel really comfortable

[00:15:44] and confident that they're making

[00:15:46] the right decision.

[00:15:46] Evie Absolutely that's something

[00:15:48] that we've really lent into

[00:15:49] at Video My Job is

[00:15:51] like I said at the start of

[00:15:52] a side of our chat

[00:15:53] trying to keep people

[00:15:53] within the ecosystem

[00:15:54] and almost serve up

[00:15:56] this library of employee stories

[00:15:59] obviously our area of expertise

[00:16:02] so they are video stories

[00:16:04] but again we have in the same way

[00:16:06] that you're talking about

[00:16:07] building out individual pages

[00:16:09] that dive deep into the pillars

[00:16:11] we have categories on this library

[00:16:13] where you can categorize by pillar

[00:16:14] you can have employee stories

[00:16:16] offering their perspective

[00:16:18] on that specific part of the EVP.

[00:16:20] I'd love to understand

[00:16:21] what your perspective is

[00:16:23] on employee story videos specifically

[00:16:26] we're talking about a mix of content

[00:16:28] but if we could talk about videos

[00:16:29] for a second I'd love that too.

[00:16:32] Absolutely a topic on skin

[00:16:34] I'm very very passionate about

[00:16:38] and taking a step back as well

[00:16:40] obviously we'll get the video side of it

[00:16:42] but I'm a firm firm believer

[00:16:45] that employee advocacy

[00:16:46] is the number one way

[00:16:48] of building an employer brand

[00:16:51] so I think I guess here's the deal

[00:16:52] right who knows your company better

[00:16:54] than those who work there

[00:16:55] every single day

[00:16:56] and so when you've got real employees

[00:16:58] sharing that genuine excitement

[00:17:00] about what it's like to be part of the team

[00:17:02] it really speaks volumes

[00:17:03] to potential candidates

[00:17:06] I guess it's like getting a recommendation

[00:17:07] from a friend on a product

[00:17:09] it's going to be way more convincing

[00:17:11] than any kind of marketing campaign

[00:17:12] or ad is ever going to be

[00:17:14] one-to-one peer recommendations

[00:17:16] and referrals there.

[00:17:19] I think the other positive side

[00:17:21] to employee advocacy is

[00:17:24] it's a win-win situation

[00:17:25] because it's actually

[00:17:26] if you're getting employees involved

[00:17:28] and they're advocating

[00:17:30] they're also feeling much more valued

[00:17:33] and engaged in the organization as well

[00:17:35] so you're boosting the company's reputation

[00:17:37] yes also reach

[00:17:38] because you're often

[00:17:40] they're sharing that content as well often

[00:17:43] and so really you're achieving

[00:17:44] a couple of things at the same time

[00:17:47] so I think when you think about

[00:17:48] how do you scale advocacy

[00:17:50] how do you enable an employee

[00:17:52] to share their opinions

[00:17:53] and perspectives

[00:17:54] to not just a few people

[00:17:55] that they kind of interact with

[00:17:57] that happen to ask them about

[00:17:58] what it's like to work for their company

[00:18:00] but how do you get them to be able to share

[00:18:02] that story and opinion

[00:18:03] to thousands of people

[00:18:04] I think video is obviously

[00:18:06] the perfect medium to be able to do that

[00:18:09] I think it's perfect

[00:18:10] because if done well

[00:18:15] video testimonials can feel like

[00:18:16] that really personal conversation

[00:18:18] between potential colleagues

[00:18:21] so using your people

[00:18:22] to communicate your ABP

[00:18:24] it's providing that real proof

[00:18:26] that's a lived experience

[00:18:28] every day for employees

[00:18:30] and I think then as I'm back to it again

[00:18:32] it's about finding that right balance

[00:18:34] right so not just using your people

[00:18:37] as those smiley faces in ads

[00:18:39] just like using them photographs

[00:18:40] of them like a stock shot

[00:18:41] or these really highly polished

[00:18:43] high production videos

[00:18:45] where people feel like paid actors

[00:18:47] talking to a script

[00:18:50] so obviously there's an element of that

[00:18:52] that's that's it needs to be polished to it

[00:18:56] and on the flip side it can't be

[00:18:58] it still needs to be professional

[00:18:59] it can't be some dodgy production

[00:19:03] because we've all seen some

[00:19:04] some really average videos

[00:19:06] produced by recruiters

[00:19:08] or whomever it may be

[00:19:09] to do their best

[00:19:10] in trying to promote the organization

[00:19:11] but they can come across as quite cringy

[00:19:13] and really not great for that

[00:19:17] for their brand perception there

[00:19:19] so yes video

[00:19:21] the importance is yeah

[00:19:22] it's a huge one for me

[00:19:23] I love when you said that

[00:19:24] it can feel like a real conversation

[00:19:26] in video testimonials

[00:19:28] and I feel that too

[00:19:29] it's almost like a conversation

[00:19:31] from the employee

[00:19:31] direct out to the candidates

[00:19:33] because they're most likely answering

[00:19:35] all the questions

[00:19:35] that candidates are sitting at home

[00:19:37] trying to find

[00:19:38] you know answers to

[00:19:41] so couldn't agree with that more

[00:19:43] just on the employee advocacy topic

[00:19:47] do you have any tips around

[00:19:49] finding those advocates

[00:19:50] within your organization

[00:19:51] or rallying your people to

[00:19:53] you know be a part of that program

[00:19:58] this is a whole other conversation

[00:20:02] you get me on this one

[00:20:03] oh my gosh

[00:20:04] okay okay

[00:20:06] they have designed

[00:20:07] and executed a number of programs

[00:20:08] and look there's a lot of learnings

[00:20:09] and I think it comes down

[00:20:10] to the organization

[00:20:11] and really unpacking

[00:20:12] uncovering kind of what's

[00:20:13] what are the barriers

[00:20:14] within that organization

[00:20:16] and I found they are quite different

[00:20:18] I had a whole raft of kind of reasons

[00:20:21] I've kind of uncovered

[00:20:21] as to why programs

[00:20:22] and don't work

[00:20:23] and why people don't get involved

[00:20:28] a lot of the time though

[00:20:29] I think it's around

[00:20:31] the big goal around creating

[00:20:33] more of a culture of employee advocacy

[00:20:35] and there can be a number of things

[00:20:36] that can be done

[00:20:38] in more programmatic ways

[00:20:40] let me say that

[00:20:40] I would

[00:20:41] to create this culture

[00:20:43] so it is opportunities

[00:20:45] around thinking about it

[00:20:47] onboarding for example

[00:20:49] how are you

[00:20:49] when you're onboarding a new employee

[00:20:51] kind of setting the tone

[00:20:54] to be like

[00:20:55] this is what we do

[00:20:56] in this organization

[00:20:57] as part of your onboarding

[00:20:58] we'd love you to share your story

[00:21:00] we're excited to have you join

[00:21:02] here's a template

[00:21:03] for posting

[00:21:04] for example

[00:21:06] that you've got a new job on LinkedIn

[00:21:07] how can we help you with doing that

[00:21:10] we'd love you to write a blog

[00:21:11] about why you're excited to join

[00:21:12] and promote some social content out of that

[00:21:14] I think by setting the tone

[00:21:16] on day one

[00:21:17] it starts to set then a kind of

[00:21:19] this is how we do things

[00:21:20] in the organization

[00:21:22] and so therefore

[00:21:22] when you're asking people along that journey

[00:21:25] kind of it's more expected

[00:21:28] or kind of they're more comfortable with that

[00:21:29] because they've already kind of popped the cherry

[00:21:31] they've already done that

[00:21:32] the first time

[00:21:33] yeah it's not a surprise

[00:21:35] yeah yeah

[00:21:35] and when you got leaders

[00:21:36] don't when you have people

[00:21:36] I think let's be ones about leadership

[00:21:38] having them out there doing that

[00:21:40] and setting kind of the tone for

[00:21:43] how you do things

[00:21:44] that definitely helps

[00:21:45] but look all these things

[00:21:46] in saying that

[00:21:47] if you're in an organization

[00:21:48] when there's really low engagement

[00:21:50] it is going to be very hard

[00:21:51] to get people to talk

[00:21:52] and to share their stories

[00:21:54] so it's then obviously

[00:21:55] I think rather than thinking about your big

[00:21:58] programmatic kind of approaches

[00:21:59] to advocacy

[00:22:00] I think it's more about fixing

[00:22:01] some of those problems first right

[00:22:03] so the reality

[00:22:04] there'll always be people who are

[00:22:05] happy at some stage

[00:22:07] of that career journey

[00:22:08] how do you identify where they're at

[00:22:10] I just find them

[00:22:12] yeah

[00:22:13] or just three moments

[00:22:14] some milestones right

[00:22:15] along the journey

[00:22:16] so when someone's been promoted

[00:22:18] they're going to be happy

[00:22:18] like they're just being given opportunity

[00:22:20] so it's is it that that point there

[00:22:22] or is it a pain-freeze time

[00:22:23] or just just looking at that

[00:22:25] that life cycle and think

[00:22:26] when are people going to be more engaged

[00:22:28] and willing to speak more positively

[00:22:30] and being able to reach out to them as well

[00:22:32] so at that point in time

[00:22:34] yeah really trying to map

[00:22:35] your advocacy strategy

[00:22:36] to that candidate journey

[00:22:39] and those yeah

[00:22:40] those moments that matter

[00:22:42] I guess

[00:22:42] yeah matter

[00:22:44] you know the very most engaged and

[00:22:46] yes

[00:22:47] about being in your organization

[00:22:48] definitely

[00:22:49] and if we're talking about this

[00:22:51] dreamlike organization

[00:22:53] that has a very clear advocacy strategy

[00:22:57] really strong on content

[00:22:58] has beautiful employee stories

[00:23:01] on their career site

[00:23:02] and a candidate has applied

[00:23:03] through that experience

[00:23:06] coming onto the company

[00:23:08] being on board in a way

[00:23:09] that's like hey could you

[00:23:10] film a video about your first week

[00:23:12] that's not going to come to them

[00:23:13] as a surprise

[00:23:14] they'll almost expect that

[00:23:15] because that's the experience I've had

[00:23:17] in the application

[00:23:18] absolutely 100%

[00:23:20] and if they've been watching videos

[00:23:22] before they've joined

[00:23:23] then yeah of course

[00:23:24] that's how it's done right

[00:23:26] absolutely

[00:23:28] great

[00:23:28] and then the last little bit

[00:23:30] that I'd love to talk to you about

[00:23:31] is career site conversions

[00:23:34] so when we overlay that

[00:23:37] with an employer brand lens

[00:23:40] what does success look like?

[00:23:45] Look I think I mentioned before

[00:23:47] I think the key goal or role

[00:23:49] but the key goal of career site

[00:23:51] is to drive leads

[00:23:54] for applicant conversions

[00:23:56] so essentially it's encouraging

[00:23:58] candidates to apply for open positions

[00:24:00] or passive talent

[00:24:02] to join a talent pool

[00:24:03] I guess that's what conversion

[00:24:04] is in our world

[00:24:06] I'm going back to my online

[00:24:07] to my store scenario

[00:24:09] you know an online store

[00:24:11] like your iconic

[00:24:11] where my daughter eight year old

[00:24:13] has been just buying herself

[00:24:14] a new pair of Converse

[00:24:15] a couple of days ago

[00:24:16] and is now obsessed with online shopping

[00:24:18] I think she's awoke

[00:24:20] and it's interesting right

[00:24:21] the whole purpose of this site

[00:24:23] like they've got experts

[00:24:24] who work on this right

[00:24:25] and the whole purpose of that site

[00:24:28] is to showcase all the products

[00:24:30] in amazing ways

[00:24:32] and encourage you

[00:24:33] using every trick in the book

[00:24:35] every digital marketing trick

[00:24:37] to essentially get you

[00:24:38] to put that into your shopping cart

[00:24:40] and complete that purchase

[00:24:41] if you didn't complete it

[00:24:42] they'll make you get back there

[00:24:43] and complete that purchase right

[00:24:45] so thinking of your careers website

[00:24:46] in that same way

[00:24:48] that is the entry point

[00:24:49] into your organization

[00:24:51] you need to get people in

[00:24:52] to opt into that funnel

[00:24:54] that sales or like recruitment process

[00:24:57] right so in that really

[00:24:59] competitive recruitment market

[00:25:00] it's absolutely critical

[00:25:02] to enhance that candidate experience

[00:25:04] throughout that entire attraction

[00:25:05] and recruitment process

[00:25:08] and I think with the importance

[00:25:09] of candidate experience

[00:25:11] and recruitment metrics rising

[00:25:14] where everything we're doing

[00:25:15] and every dollar we're spending

[00:25:16] is under scrutiny

[00:25:17] we simply can't afford

[00:25:18] to lose the talent

[00:25:20] I've spent lots of time money

[00:25:21] and effort trying to attract

[00:25:24] and so I think that

[00:25:26] the website abandonment rate

[00:25:30] speak right

[00:25:32] so essentially the application

[00:25:34] the drop-off rate right

[00:25:35] the of an applicant

[00:25:36] a potential applicant right

[00:25:37] and is surprisingly huge

[00:25:40] and many companies

[00:25:41] really remain oblivious

[00:25:42] to kind of where when

[00:25:43] and why candidates abandon

[00:25:45] that application process

[00:25:46] so that shopping cart

[00:25:47] like why they haven't gone through

[00:25:48] that process

[00:25:49] to essentially submit

[00:25:51] that application or that lead

[00:25:53] so I'd be encouraging people

[00:25:55] to really have a look

[00:25:56] at their website conversion rate

[00:25:57] so probably in the simplest form

[00:26:00] of measuring

[00:26:01] knowing that I think true conversion

[00:26:03] calculations are probably far more complex

[00:26:04] than this

[00:26:05] but looking at your Google analytics

[00:26:07] to go what's that unique

[00:26:09] what is that number of unique visitors

[00:26:11] that you're getting to your website

[00:26:14] same period of time

[00:26:16] in your ATS look at

[00:26:17] how many applications

[00:26:18] you've received

[00:26:20] where the careers website

[00:26:21] is the source of that application

[00:26:23] so imagining you've got

[00:26:25] a thousand unique visitors

[00:26:26] to your careers or job page

[00:26:29] but you've only got

[00:26:30] a hundred job applications

[00:26:32] now a hundred is probably quite high

[00:26:34] in that case

[00:26:34] it's probably realistically

[00:26:35] much lesser or lower number

[00:26:37] of visitors to applicants

[00:26:39] just but in that

[00:26:40] a hundred in that thousand

[00:26:41] to one hundred scenario

[00:26:43] that's a huge

[00:26:45] do the math 90 percent

[00:26:47] loss of potential talent

[00:26:50] at that conversion page

[00:26:52] right so it's crazy

[00:26:54] when you're having

[00:26:55] you know senior leaders

[00:26:57] so shocked at that drop off rate

[00:26:59] are there some common things

[00:27:00] that you see like is it due to

[00:27:01] lack of substance

[00:27:02] on the career site

[00:27:03] like is there not enough there

[00:27:05] they're coming through channels

[00:27:06] where it looks like

[00:27:08] they want to come in

[00:27:09] and learn more

[00:27:10] but then there's nothing delivering

[00:27:12] could be and look I think

[00:27:14] once again it's so

[00:27:15] unique to the organization

[00:27:16] and their situation

[00:27:17] and scenario of the website

[00:27:18] it could be the employer

[00:27:19] brand strength

[00:27:20] there's so many factors

[00:27:21] that could be forming that

[00:27:22] and it's not until you have

[00:27:23] that clear picture

[00:27:24] of kind of those those stats

[00:27:26] to be able to look at

[00:27:27] and there's I guess that

[00:27:28] there's analytics

[00:27:29] to be able to look at

[00:27:31] and give you some lines

[00:27:31] of questioning to exact question

[00:27:33] focusing on

[00:27:34] how can we find out like this

[00:27:35] where exactly where candidates

[00:27:38] are dropping off through that process

[00:27:40] or how could we improve

[00:27:41] that site experience to

[00:27:44] remove any potential barriers

[00:27:46] and increase the conversion

[00:27:48] and I think by looking at the website

[00:27:50] through that lens

[00:27:51] you can start to make some decisions

[00:27:52] and different decisions around

[00:27:54] what you do

[00:27:55] with the site experience

[00:27:57] and kind of what priorities

[00:27:58] you may have in your talent

[00:27:59] attraction strategy

[00:28:00] which would be kind of different

[00:28:01] questions you'd be kind of posing

[00:28:03] if it was just thinking about

[00:28:04] oh what content do I want to create

[00:28:05] or making decisions around

[00:28:08] where we host the website

[00:28:09] and what that journey looks like

[00:28:11] so I think yeah

[00:28:13] going back to your question

[00:28:14] there's so many different reasons

[00:28:16] but a lot of the time

[00:28:17] it's just it's not optimized

[00:28:18] we're not thought about it

[00:28:20] through a digital marketing lens

[00:28:21] to think what is that user experience

[00:28:23] how do we optimize that

[00:28:24] how do we reduce the clicks

[00:28:25] serve up really interesting

[00:28:26] compelling information

[00:28:28] and always have a call to action

[00:28:30] with a deliberate kind of plan around

[00:28:32] what do we want people to do

[00:28:33] at this stage

[00:28:34] where are we driving to

[00:28:35] how do we simplify this experience

[00:28:37] to get people in

[00:28:38] I don't think many people

[00:28:40] really sit down and think about that

[00:28:42] with their career

[00:28:43] in regards to their careers website

[00:28:44] which is crazy

[00:28:45] because marketing team will do that

[00:28:47] from their consumer

[00:28:48] or kind of perspective

[00:28:49] but we just don't

[00:28:50] we're not that sophisticated

[00:28:51] in our world unfortunately

[00:28:53] and that's such an obvious

[00:28:54] kind of starting point

[00:28:56] for someone as well

[00:28:57] to work backwards

[00:28:59] yes like look at the conversion

[00:29:00] of the site

[00:29:01] where are the areas

[00:29:02] that need to be built out more

[00:29:03] and what action do we want the candidate

[00:29:05] to take at those points

[00:29:06] yeah yeah crazy

[00:29:09] and it's it is

[00:29:10] and I think I

[00:29:11] everyone kind of comes to me going

[00:29:13] okay what can we do

[00:29:13] to build our employer brand

[00:29:15] and we want to be

[00:29:16] disrupted in the market

[00:29:17] we want to make some noise out there

[00:29:18] and they've got some budget

[00:29:20] to put towards

[00:29:20] the marketing campaigns

[00:29:21] which is awesome

[00:29:23] but then I look at their careers website

[00:29:25] and I said there's no point in that

[00:29:26] spending that money

[00:29:27] because essentially

[00:29:28] we need to drive them somewhere

[00:29:29] and you can spend that money

[00:29:30] making noise and driving them there

[00:29:32] that's not optimized

[00:29:33] there's no reason for them

[00:29:34] to actually do anything

[00:29:35] like they're going to get there

[00:29:36] and drop off

[00:29:36] and you've often wasted opportunity

[00:29:38] for that particular candidate

[00:29:40] and when there are smaller markets

[00:29:41] as well that you're trying to

[00:29:43] kind of recruit within

[00:29:45] you need to make sure

[00:29:46] that's it's a really great experience

[00:29:47] and it's yeah focusing on that

[00:29:49] having that really good conversion place

[00:29:52] which is your careers website

[00:29:53] first and then think about

[00:29:55] how you're driving people there

[00:29:56] is kind of a key priority

[00:29:57] absolutely what do you

[00:29:59] sorry all these questions

[00:30:00] keep coming up

[00:30:02] while I've got you I need to ask you

[00:30:04] what do you recommend to those

[00:30:06] the people who come to you

[00:30:07] with a shoestring budget

[00:30:09] that won all of all of these things

[00:30:10] but like you said

[00:30:11] they don't have

[00:30:12] a great career site

[00:30:14] is there something

[00:30:15] you go to

[00:30:16] or you direct them towards

[00:30:17] to help them make improvements

[00:30:18] in their strategy?

[00:30:21] Employee advocacy

[00:30:24] about what could that look like

[00:30:25] in your organization

[00:30:27] so as I mentioned

[00:30:28] it's something as simple as

[00:30:29] creating a little template

[00:30:30] that people could be asked on day one

[00:30:32] or when they've been offered a job

[00:30:33] here post this to LinkedIn

[00:30:35] rather than using the standard

[00:30:37] average one that LinkedIn

[00:30:38] kind of has an offer

[00:30:39] a silly animation

[00:30:40] it's like it's a branded opportunity

[00:30:44] it's it could be something like

[00:30:45] simple as that

[00:30:46] or it could be something

[00:30:47] like thinking about

[00:30:48] how you're getting your people's stories

[00:30:50] out there through your social content

[00:30:52] or as a blog

[00:30:53] or even just featuring them

[00:30:54] on the careers website

[00:30:56] there's obviously so many things

[00:30:57] and ways in which

[00:30:58] you can activate your people

[00:30:59] as advocates but

[00:31:01] often they can be cheap

[00:31:03] and easier ways to do that

[00:31:05] and when you've got a bit more budget

[00:31:07] I'd be thinking definitely around

[00:31:09] video as a medium

[00:31:10] to be able to tell that story

[00:31:13] in a much more engaging way.

[00:31:16] For sure

[00:31:16] and if you start

[00:31:17] that behavior from the beginning

[00:31:19] and almost start collecting

[00:31:21] those advocacy pieces

[00:31:22] right from the start

[00:31:23] of their candidate journey

[00:31:24] that can then funnel through

[00:31:25] to your video strategy

[00:31:26] of when you are ready

[00:31:28] to house it all in one place

[00:31:29] put some effort into that ecosystem

[00:31:32] I think that's a great piece

[00:31:34] of advice on your behalf.

[00:31:38] Anything else to add

[00:31:39] I guess until we

[00:31:40] and then let's we wrap up

[00:31:41] anything that you're really

[00:31:44] focused on at the moment?

[00:31:48] These are key topics

[00:31:48] and they're really relevant

[00:31:50] to quite a few companies

[00:31:51] I'm working with at the moment now

[00:31:53] and it's thinking about

[00:31:54] well what can we do

[00:31:54] with what we've got

[00:31:56] to be most effective

[00:31:57] and in these areas

[00:31:59] it's okay if this is

[00:32:01] the website we're working with

[00:32:02] this is what we're stuck with

[00:32:04] then let's work within that

[00:32:06] and with every little hack

[00:32:07] we can make it as effective

[00:32:09] as possible

[00:32:10] or thinking about how we can

[00:32:12] be getting employee stories out

[00:32:15] and using AI

[00:32:16] and using tools we've got available

[00:32:18] to us to do that

[00:32:19] effectively and at scale.

[00:32:22] Kind of definitely keep priorities

[00:32:23] right now is where people are focusing.

[00:32:26] Absolutely well thank you so much

[00:32:27] for sharing all of your wisdom today

[00:32:29] I've loved having you on

[00:32:30] and we'll have to have you back

[00:32:32] sometime soon.

[00:32:34] Gonna miss you guys.

[00:32:36] It's not goodbye

[00:32:38] see you later.

[00:32:41] Thanks so much

[00:32:42] for listening to today's episode

[00:32:44] if you want to learn more

[00:32:45] about activating your employer brand

[00:32:46] strategy and EVP

[00:32:48] then you can check out

[00:32:49] podcast.videomyjob.com

[00:32:51] for a library of industry perspectives

[00:32:53] and how-tos.

[00:32:54] Now if you're ready

[00:32:55] to level up your activation strategy

[00:32:56] then you need an employee story

[00:32:58] video platform

[00:32:59] and that's what we do.

[00:33:01] Go to video my job.com forward slash demo

[00:33:04] to book a walkthrough

[00:33:05] with one of our video specialists

[00:33:07] or click on the pricing page

[00:33:08] to learn about our new

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