90 [EB Series] How Internal Comms Can Own the Employer Brand Narrative | Jamie Anne Ysrael

[00:00:00] You're listening to VideoMy Pod's Employer Brand Series. I'm David Machucker and joining me for this very special Singapore edition is the wonderful co-host, Emma Lang. We're sitting down with incredible people shaping employer brand across the region to have honest conversations about what's working, what's not, and where to next for employer brand and recruitment marketing. Where's it all heading? There's a lot to learn from this part of the world in Singapore. Let's get into it.

[00:00:28] Welcome to the VideoMy Pod series where we go deep in employee brand. I'm David Machucca. I'm Emma Lang. I'm Jamie Anne Ysrael. And I'm really excited to be sharing this story. We're going to be unpacking the importance of employee brand and it sitting within internal comms. And there's just so much to talk about. We're just talking offline. So I'm really looking forward to jumping in. Before we do, do you mind if you just share a little bit about yourself?

[00:00:58] It's very exciting. First, thank you for inviting me and Emma and David for being here. It's really an exciting topic. I really didn't start with internal comms. I started with marketing and advertising for tech brands and also a tech consulting company. So product marketing, digital marketing, PR as well. And then a very accidental thing happened that made my shift into the people space.

[00:01:26] Then a tech and social media platform gave me the opportunity to build an organizational culture and employer branding team for APAC. And I just loved it. I just loved being in the people space. And now I'm doing the regional internal comms and org culture for Lazada under Alibaba. And it's been such a great and interesting journey moving from marketing to the people space, learning about employer brand and internal comms.

[00:01:54] But a great common thread that I saw in all that experience is that whether you're talking to consumers, to candidates or to employees, everything is about people, connection and engagement. So refreshing to talk to someone who values internal comms and having that connection with employer brand. So to set the scene, you're not reporting into a talent acquisition team. You're sitting within a culture and internal comms team.

[00:02:23] Yes, our culture internal comms team is under people. So HR, but not TA or recruitment. Okay, so that comes with a different mindset and we are going to unpack that. Yes, let's start there. I mean, it's what we always say is it's the heart of the EVP. It's the internal piece. It's the culture. It's what you stand for and that experience you give to the employees and how you talk about that internally. Obviously, it has to align external and vice versa.

[00:02:51] So maybe we could just learn a little bit about how you approach your alignment for internal comms and culture and that EVP messaging that you and the team work on. Right. I think it starts with the leadership first. Everything starts from that. That they build the identity of the company and constantly rebuild that. They define the business strategy, not just for the business now and the business in the future. How is that going to evolve?

[00:03:22] And that trickles in what kind of culture do we need to support that strategy and that direction? What kind of people and ways of working do we need to retain and also attract? So it's really aligning with them on their business direction. And what are the cultural support that they need to make that happen? At the same time, that would lead to the kind of employer brand that we want to communicate externally.

[00:03:49] Second is they have a direction of the company for the future. As companies evolve, the culture has to evolve. And the type of people that we want to keep and attract will also evolve along that way. And that they feed the base and the heart of what the employer brand is, not just for now, but also three or five or ten years after. So that alignment has to happen first.

[00:04:16] To have that visibility is quite unique compared to other employer branders who are focused on roles and what's happening in the next six months and what's the next campaign we're running. You just shared one benefit. What are a few of the other benefits that you see sitting within internal comms as opposed to sitting within talent acquisition? I think being in internal comms also gives us a broader view of what the messaging is.

[00:04:44] So that could be consistent in the different facets of the organization, whether we're talking to employees or we're going to be talking to candidates. It gives us a clear picture of what could the message be? How can that be clear and consistent about who we are and the kind of the people that we want? Because sometimes that's where the gap is. We want to attract talents a lot. But then inside what we're saying may be different.

[00:05:13] The employee experience may be different. The types of moments that we're shaping for employees will be different. I've had maybe a good example. I've had the opportunity with working with companies who are very fast paced. It's easy to say on an employer branding material that we're a dynamic company. That's usually what we say, right? But what does that mean on a day to day? What do employees actually need to do? What are the behaviors of being?

[00:05:42] And then how do you unpack that and share it? Correct. Correct. So what are also some of the channels that you rely more on from an internal comms perspective? What's exciting now about internal comms is gone are the days when you do an email or a town hall, right? I haven't even checked my email, I think, for the last few hours because now the communications are so different. The behaviors of employees are so different. You've got podcasts.

[00:06:11] You've got at the moment instant messaging. You've got internal social media channels that are replicating your external social media channels. It could be an internal Instagram type of messaging formats. You've got activations that are so different. So the channels spectrum is very huge now.

[00:06:33] And it's really knowing what is the message and what would be the perfect channel to deliver this message or a perfect mix of different channels to deliver this message. So employees feel that it's fresh, they can engage with it, and then they are motivated to take action upon the communications as well. And are you measuring them taking action based on the content that you're sharing? Yes, it's really depending on the objective of the content, right?

[00:07:03] If we want them to sign up for something, then we can measure that. Are they viewing, just viewing, or are they doing the next steps? And then thirdly, maybe some soft measures besides from the usual channel metrics that you would see on like a YouTube, a podcast, like viewers, listeners, or in a social media post, likes, and engagement, is really are the changes happening.

[00:07:29] If we're communicating, let's say, a culture change, or we're communicating values, or AI adoption, or certain changes as well. Or an executive message. Our executive message, are people really doing the action that they're supposed to do after that. Yeah. I've heard internal comms use their internal systems like a SharePoint to communicate.

[00:07:57] Is that something that you use, or is there a messaging system that you're also using as well, like a Slack, or are you advocating for people to use those channels? Yeah. Yeah. So we have a very fast-paced type of business. Okay. And so we develop our own Slack that's like your Zoom, that's also your Microsoft Office, into one big internal tool. Is that true? Yes. It's very, very amazing. But it's more like I like it because it's very at the moment.

[00:08:27] You know, if you need something done, you just instantly message a person, and then you get the reply fast. And it's for very, very time-sensitive information that's very, very good to use. At the same time, it gives you a lot of creativity on the content because it's not a boring email or a newsletter. There's so much fun that you can do with that, but also very useful tool.

[00:08:51] So we're more at the moment now, but at the same time, I think it's also learning how to control the pace of how you send messages and ensuring that they're very timely as well and relevant. Then we have internal blogs as well as internal, very Instagram type of channel where employees can post about their experience and their colleagues can like and engage and comment.

[00:09:20] This is really to, especially where we're in different markets, it's really to share what's happening in the other market. Maybe we can connect with colleagues on maybe in China or Indonesia and see what they're doing, what are they enjoying about their job and so on. I mean, that could be some gold right there around if you've got employees actively sharing internally all that great content and their experiences and what they're doing.

[00:09:48] In your role or past roles, have you been able to unlock that and pick it up? This is beautiful content. Can we showcase it externally to then support your external messaging? So it's a really nice, authentic self-experience. How have you managed that perhaps in the past? Yes, in the past when I was working a company with an employer branding team.

[00:10:11] So every time we would do a special topic on the internal social media channel, we would align with them so that we can share the content. Or sometimes if there's a big company moment like employee anniversaries or there's a big campaign, this could be moments where we can showcase the content internally and then externally. Sometimes it's also the other way around.

[00:10:35] If there is probably a nice news or an external engagement that happened with whether that's candidates or some of our partners, we also share back internally. So it's this collaboration that helps that makes it more real because these are true lived employee experiences. Do you find that it's more of a safer space for people to share their authentic stories because it's not going external?

[00:11:04] It's going to be in a place that's internal just with their colleagues? I think it's safe when you put it that way because it's not going out. Then people are more free to take a picture and share. But also because it's also still a professional environment. So everybody still respects that. Not everything can be shared there, of course. Sure. And I would assume, I'm putting words in your mouth, I don't mean to do that. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[00:11:34] That the approval process can be slightly different. If it is going through, if it's going external, it has to be approved before it does go out. However, if it's for internal... Yeah, actually people just post. We set some guidelines and then we tell them this is a safe space. Be respectful and post as you want. And that has... We've never had issues with employees posting just freely and authentically.

[00:12:03] Yeah, you've created this safe space. So I'm assuming what you're impacting is internal mobility? Not just internal mobility, but also creating shared experiences. Retention there. Retention as well and engagement. Yeah. Because people see that actually we are enjoying certain moments or this particular employee experience or milestone was important and it's something that I truly enjoyed. Yeah.

[00:12:33] I refer to companies that have good culture as typically companies that communicate really well and it's not too dissimilar to breathing oxygen. It's what we do and it's fluid. But then you take communication away and things get choked up. So culture is important. It's really important. Very important. It is.

[00:12:54] It creates meaningful places of work where people are able to bring their more authentic self to work and their best part of themselves so that they can impact projects. So it's really great that you're providing these tips on how to unlock shared culture, specifically internally, because I think everything's hard, but it just seems a little bit easier and it's more of a low hanging fruit. The culture. Internally. Internally.

[00:13:25] I think it's still hard because I imagine you've got so many stakeholders coming to you wanting to communicate and they think it's urgent and they want to do it on a certain channel. And as you've articulated, there's different platforms, the right type of things. You've got to time it. You can't overwhelm your employees. So I think there's a tricky part there of it's almost a flip, isn't it?

[00:13:47] You're managing those stakeholders and their needs to communicate versus hiring managers wanting to hire now and run campaigns with the recruitment team or the employer brand team very quickly. I'm curious around how talking about that communication piece and it can choke it up if it's not there, but it can also act as a really good feedback loop and pulse on the ground.

[00:14:09] So you're listening to the leaders, you're trying to articulate their vision and show point, which can change, but you've got to be consistent. But you've also, you're in this really unique position, just as sometimes we say recruiters are with candidates. They can get a feel of what candidates are after and what are they engaging with. You're in this really great position where you can feel what candidates are engaging with.

[00:14:33] What's what's not working with them, what's what's not resonating with that leadership messaging and how can you then continue to nurture that culture in the right way? So could you share with us how you listen to the pulse on the ground through your role as well? Yes. So we do get the feedback from all the communication that we're doing. Some employees are more engaged to, you know, this is working for me. I'm going to like and share. So that has been very helpful.

[00:15:01] We also create some feedback loops, whether those are just pulse surveys, not waiting for the annual engagement survey to get all the insights. But very at the moment, if something changes in the strategy or there was a recent announcement, just checking with a few employees, how are they reacting to this? How are they feeling about this? How do they feel that this is impacting their job?

[00:15:25] So communication also acts as feedback loops to shape not just the internal culture, but also there could be good input to employer brand as well. Nice. And then just building on that point, do you also then, or again, previous roles, listen to that culture external. So your external reputation piece and how is that permeating out?

[00:15:51] Because once you've got the inside right and singing, that's the heart, a lot of the work done for you. Because hopefully and then naturally those great messages and advocacy just follows. And the same, what you're communicating internally should be seen externally. So do you also have those checkpoints for your external reputation and listening and reporting against that? In previous roles where I was more involved, maybe an employer brand, we would often get the feedback.

[00:16:19] And in an ideal scenario, there will be great feedback. But there will always, always be some negative feedback. My experience on this or sometimes even going through some of the Glassdoor reviews or in our social company pages, you will get those feedback. And I think the key is really whether, it doesn't really matter which platform you use. It's about listening, the ability to listen, to capture this right away. Okay, maybe we heard this online.

[00:16:48] Then what do we need to work on internally? And maybe those could be things that are more long-term and harder to change. But the first step is we get that feedback and let's discuss it. Let's see what we can do. Is there something that we can tweak and change now? And what can we do for the future? I'm generally excited about this one. If you work in talent acquisition or employee brand, you would have come across James Ellis.

[00:17:16] Four books, over 15 years of experience. One of the most recognized employee brand authority voices in the world. On September 2nd, he's coming to Melbourne for the first time ever. He'll be talking about how to be choosable. How to be different in a market that's super competitive. If you're in TA or employer brand or you're a CPO looking for differentiation, this is the most valuable afternoon that you'll have this year.

[00:17:46] Tickets are in sale now. Don't sleep on this. So maybe we could dive into the content piece behind that. Then how do you talk to those messages and how do you create and gather the content internally and amplify that through your internal platforms? There's different types of content that we can use. One are from the experiences and the shared moments. Like I shared those key employee events that are really important for the employees

[00:18:12] because they will also be the moments that would matter to your candidates. The moments where they get recognized. That's very, very meaningful. So are we talking promotion maybe? Could be promotions or celebrating milestones and even winning internal, simple internal competitions. These are still moments where they can shine.

[00:18:38] And second is I love day in the life stories because they really tell you what is this role for? What are you doing on a day to day? And as roles become more fluid or merged. So some people are doing a mix of different things. So it's nice to get to know how does that mean every day? So I also like those types of content.

[00:19:03] Then third, we always do employee stories, which is also nice because then it comes from the perspective of the employees that, okay, this is what I like about my role and my job and so on. I would want though, but I haven't seen it, is to find more, I think, unpolished stories. More natural, authentic, unpolished stories.

[00:19:30] Working in an employer brand, we used to design all these nice videos of how employees are. We did a very authentic vlog type of internal comms, working with leaders and some employees. Just very raw, natural footage of what they're doing every day. And it worked so well internally. And I thought that maybe that can be something that can also be done externally.

[00:19:56] It's funny that you say that because I was going to ask what messages are cutting through in terms of content? Is it written? Is it video? And what style? You sort of just answered that question. But I'm curious to know, like, what is the difference between posting something by text or an email or video? What works? I won't really say that there is one format that would stand up above all.

[00:20:26] I think it's really dependent on the objective and the type of the content that you're communicating. If it's something about experiences and you want to get to see that moment and what are people proud of doing and not doing, videos really work well and even raw type of videos. So we've tested some vlog, employee vlog type of videos where we give them the equipment and just be honest about their experience. They can make a bit of mistakes in the camera.

[00:20:56] We would still make it a bit more professional. But the idea and the sentiment has to be very authentic. So that really worked well with our internal audiences before. Second, for posts that are more informational. So it's really just posts, simple online posters that people can just get the information.

[00:21:19] I think it's more simple, short, sweet and with a clear call to action of what they need to do next. Because as an employee, you would receive so many messages in a day. It could be very nicely done story or a very nice newsletter. But if there's just so much content in it, you won't also have the time to even appreciate or take action on the content.

[00:21:44] I think this is the challenge of today's employees, but also externally, just all of us as consumers, that overload of information we digest daily is insane. But again, because you have your internal platforms, I was just thinking in my head, you're A-B testing before it even goes out to market, which is great. So for video, for example, if you create those really raw ones you mentioned and you see they perform really well on your own internal platforms because you can measure it. You can look at the comments.

[00:22:13] You can see it's authentic. It's resonating. People are loving it. Oh, you might feel a little bit safer perhaps to go. This might work externally. Let's try it or clean it up a little bit. But, you know, you've got the foundations there. So I actually think that's a really good takeaway of you can use the internal places as a bit of a test bed and see what really, truly lands. With the true employees, with their experiences, you've got all the data behind it because it's your platforms before you even take it external.

[00:22:43] Yeah, it's very good because also it's the type of people that you would want to engage with and attract with your content externally because they're already in your company. So if they've stayed in your company for long, they are the type of the talent that you would want to also hire and attract. So at least in that moment, the content isn't just on the number of people you're going to reach, but also the number of a test for the number of people that you want to also engage and attract.

[00:23:11] If we're just to change tracks a little bit, I'm curious to know how you're encouraging people to share their content. What's the secret sauce to get employees to be advocates? What's the secret sauce to get employees to be able to share their content? Well, prizes. I would be honest. Prizes. Prizes. There has to be. You're bribing them. You're bribing. Okay. That's the first. Tell me about your bribe. No, no, no. Sometimes it's just because everyone's busy, right?

[00:23:38] So sometimes you have to give them a little bit of motivation. What are we talking about here? Sometimes it could be small things, really. It should be small things. It's really just small things, whether it's little merchandise or even bragging rights to something. Sometimes it's like that because they feel they recognize, oh, we're going to feature you in our bigger platforms.

[00:24:05] Then they feel like, ah, I'm going to get a bit of more visibility. Recognition is also something. It's a good one. So that's not a bribe. That's actually a good one. But other things that you can give away that I've heard works as well could be exclusive tickets. It could be a certain seat at a town hall. Experiences. An experience. A donation. Donation to a charity if they participate. That's a real bribe.

[00:24:33] I haven't tried the donation, but you're giving me great information. You can guilt them into participation. To donating, huh? That's quite good. Or you get some one-on-one time with leaders or a roundtable as well if you do a cohort. People like that one too, especially their grads. Yeah? I'm doing a program where we're taking them to an experience trip as a prize so that it feels like a learning experience, but also in a fun way. So that's also something.

[00:25:02] Is that for early learning people? It's for we created a program where we can get feedback from employees about our product. And then as a return, if you're the top contributor of giving feedback, then you get an experience trip. Does that mean you have a league table going internally? And people see. Then the people are trying, okay, I want to get to the leaderboard, you know.

[00:25:28] And sometimes they don't even, they know that they won't probably get the top one, but they just want to feel that internal fun competition and getting recognized. Well, that falls in its own category, a competition. And I think that's a really good way. And there's different ways that you can run a competition. You could run it with an awesome prize like that. It could be engagement on their content or how much content that they've created. Yeah. Competition's a great one too.

[00:25:58] Internal comps is fun. There's just so many things that you can do. Yeah. And your skill set is the engagement piece, like communicating messages, but having that, having those hooks to be able to bring people in, which is so beneficial to employ a brand. With that skill set, I was just thinking as you're coaching, you're almost becoming the director sometimes when you're encouraging employees to create content. And I'm also thinking about your leaders that you work with too.

[00:26:28] Are there any tips or learnings you've had in the past where perhaps it actually has gone really wrong and the content's come out too polished or just really cheesy? What are your little ways of working with the people to really unpack a really authentic story, whether it's a quote, a really nice snappy quote or some video content, whatever it might be. But how do you help get it out of people, whether it's the majority of your employees or those little knacks that you use when you speak to leaders?

[00:26:58] I think the challenge with internal comms is really creating content for leaders because not all leaders can naturally be engaging. Some of them are very business focused and very straightforward, and they can't also appear suddenly very vibrant and engaging because it's also not authentic. And people will see through that if they see their leaders suddenly pretending a different persona.

[00:27:26] And I feel that it's really more about getting to know that leader very well, to see how do we position this leader, what kind of content. So maybe they're not as engaging. That it could be simple quotations because they're very insightful, and they have an expertise on certain subjects that they can talk more about or that we can write something about them.

[00:27:53] And the leaders who are more active and engaging will be the ones who we can use for more visual type of content or who can be the front and the face in some of our activations or in some of the campaigns because they can engage well. So really getting to know your talent, whoever that is, whether that's an employee or a leader, to be the face of your campaign or your company is the first step. Yeah.

[00:28:21] I think they would really like that personal brand type touch that I'm hearing that you're being thoughtful of. How do they respond to feedback and you trying to help them, to position them? I think there are different types of people. Some leaders will be very open or some employees also will be very open to feedback.

[00:28:47] There will be some who will not maybe prioritize because maybe this is not something that they do on a day-to-day or they want to be a bit more on the background, and that's okay. It's really sometimes also trial and error. So there will be some will be successful, some may not, and then you just move forward. Okay, that didn't work. Then let's think of something else. It's been a fascinating conversation. Any last questions?

[00:29:16] I have, yes, a last one around, again, coming back to the beginning a little bit, around how you're nurturing and growing, obviously, the culture, the internal comes from the inside out. And you can become that really trusted partner to, again, the talent acquisition team, the employer brand team, the hiring managers, the leaders of when they do go out to the external market.

[00:29:39] How do you work with them to make sure their narrative is on point and it is aligning to all the hard work that you're doing internally to build that, again, in that consistent way? So any advice for people who are either internal comms or want to work more closely and better with their internal comms colleagues to make sure they are aligned? Because that's ultimately what we all have the same goals. We all have to protect the brand. From your past experiences and partnerships, how does that work really well for you?

[00:30:07] From my experience, it's really the internal comms people taking the initiative to reach out. We have an important, this is the priority of the company right now, and this is something that we want to bring out more internally and this is something that you can also share externally. So it's really, my experience is that don't wait. Just go out there, reach out to your employer branding team.

[00:30:33] I've had experiences where we've had to define the messages that they have to share to their candidates so that it's also consistent with the culture so we can prepare those materials and share with them. Because in the end, these are helpful content for them to use. And then it also helps you because then the message is consistent. When these candidates eventually onboard and become your employees,

[00:31:00] they don't, the expectation is a bit, you close the gap on the expectation. Perfect. I think that's the goal, right? So to have it aligned so it's not disjointed. That's a really good way to end the episode. There's just been so much information that you've shared that's been valuable, and we really appreciate your time. Thanks for joining us. Thank you. It has been a very, very engaging topic and very, very interesting topic as well for me.