18 [Talking Talent Live] Rachel Kennedy, Chief Light Keeper

[00:00:09] Jay Rusden, Rachel Kennedy, Chief Light Keeper, VMJPod, VideoMyJob Brittany Anderson Thank you. Super, super excited to be here with you guys. Thanks so much for having me.

[00:01:10] It's good. And look, when we caught up to talk about having you on this session, I said to you, you know, we've covered so much ground in a lot of different ways on the program this year.

[00:01:18] And honestly, couldn't think of a better having a better guest on to finish up the season of the year and just really diving into this content strategy topic that's right in your sweet spot. So yeah, excited to get into this conversation.

[00:01:29] Feel announcements and updates before we get into the discussion. So the first one is from a VideoMyJob update. Who's a Canva fan?

[00:01:38] Whoever's using Canva, I know both you're good. I thought so. Yeah, look, whenever we have these conversations, there's a lot of people that are using Canva, especially for creating content within employee branding and job ads and things like that.

[00:01:52] So yeah, we're really excited. We're going to launch an integration with VideoMyJob into Canva. So what that means is all of the employee generated video content, video job ads, employee stories will be accessible directly into Canva so you can go and do all the good things, get all those extra graphics and stuff and create some killer social content off the back of that.

[00:02:10] So if that's something you're interested in, just drop a comment with Canva on the live feed and we'll get in touch to give you some more info.

[00:02:18] Another one we've got from our friends again at TQ Solutions. So Ruby Gia, I think it's pronounced from over at TQ is going to be presenting a really great masterclass on how to bring your personas to life at the upcoming EB stars festival on the 28th and 29th.

[00:02:33] So we're going to drop a link to that one. It's a virtual event, I think some of the time zones are more on the Europe side of things as well, but we'll drop a link to that one as well.

[00:02:42] So, Brea, I think you've got, like I said, you've got a call out for some of your activity as well.

[00:02:46] Yes, very local, but for those in Sydney, whether it be there visiting Sydney for the Smart Recruiters event next Monday, make sure, or locals obviously, make sure you join us at Sydney CityWare Meetups. And great debate on the future of TA is AI.

[00:03:05] Should be fun, may turn into the comedy roast of the year with the people we've got on the debating team. But also for those who we don't see there, I'm pumped to see all the TA employer brand experts in the country at ATC this month.

[00:03:19] Looking forward to that one. Yeah, nice one. I think AI is such a good topic for debate, right? I think it'll be a good one. Yeah, so let's get into it. Comments and questions, drop your thoughts on the topic.

[00:03:30] So your contribution along the way and of course any questions you've got for Rachel or Brea is our kind of resident EB expert.

[00:03:36] But let's jump into it. Rachel, just as a bit of an intro for those who don't know you, I'd love to hear a bit more about your background and how and why you made that pivot over to really focusing on EB content and creating content strategies.

[00:03:50] And yeah, what's the inspiration behind the Southern Lighthouse? Yeah, thank you so much. I am a recovering recruiter. So I was in house at a construction company and then the container store, which is a retail company that sells expensive empty boxes in the US.

[00:04:06] And so have always been a recruiter. I fell in love with this idea of attracting talent but using the stories that you already have.

[00:04:16] I didn't know that was called employer branding at the time, but I started writing blogs. I started our LinkedIn account. I started our Twitter handle.

[00:04:26] I just started talking to our existing employees and sharing their stories asking why do you work here? There's a million other choices of retailers. Why did you choose this one?

[00:04:37] So I didn't know it, but that was content. It's all of the things we put out that speak to our brand. And so I loved working at this intersection of marketing and recruiting.

[00:04:50] I got furloughed in the pandemic, not a lot of need for recruiters, especially in retail in 2020. And so it really was a great pause for me. Like I think a lot of people experienced.

[00:05:02] I had a hard conversation with my husband and just saying like, there's no job out there that I want. And I wonder if there's a way I can start my own company and do this for myself.

[00:05:13] And he's like, if you don't try, you won't know. So let's do it. So Southern Lighthouse was born in June of 2020.

[00:05:20] I had never planned to be a business owner. I was super happy in house with a salary and a 401k and the stability of that. But I, it's been a wonderful three and a half years and I haven't looked back.

[00:05:34] This phrase had always inspired me be a ladder to help someone up, be a lighthouse to help someone through or be a lifeboat to help someone out.

[00:05:45] And so I just love the inspirational message with that. So I thought if I ever started a company, lighthouse consulting would probably be it. Of course that was taken. So I live in Texas.

[00:05:56] So the Southern aspect of Southern Lighthouse came to be the name and so my business is really focused on employer brand content creation.

[00:06:05] Again, there's brilliant people like a Bree and strategists out there who kind of develop the EVP and the strategy of who we are. And I love to partner with people like Bree and then take that message and activate it put it out into the world so that we can shine a light on our own people and our own stories but also that I can be a light to kind of help those companies in a way that develops their marketing and messaging.

[00:06:35] To find great candidates. So that is the story of this lighthouse. Yeah, beautiful. Congrats on just on three years right to celebrate. Yes, yes. Thank you. Okay, I might throw to you, Bree, to kick off the first topic. Absolutely.

[00:06:53] In chatting with you, obviously for the last few years, but more recently, I guess we've heard you describe content not as a thing that you do but more as a mindset shift in how companies need to go about attracting talent and really growing and changing their approach.

[00:07:10] I know you work with a lot of clients and you're very much across what's happening what's hot in the US market. What would you say is the status quo and what do you see as the case for change towards this I guess different and new mindset.

[00:07:23] That's a great question. You know, I think of content is anything the light touches in terms of what we're putting out what we're saying about the company.

[00:07:34] So there's a lot of different touch points you know I think of your employer brand is like a bird's nest and it's full of sticks and twigs and feathers and sometimes cigarette butts.

[00:07:42] Anything a candidate can pick up and assimilate about your company that kind of forms the idea of content about your company what it feels like to work there they're going to think about a friend who used to work there they're going to maybe get your email they're going to check out your website they're going to check you out on social media.

[00:08:02] All those little sticks and twigs they kind of push together, and that creates their constant, the content in their mind about what it's like to work for your company so.

[00:08:12] And what I'm seeing is kind of baseline companies will put out a job description. Hey, come work for us. Come work for us come work for us. That's pretty much it.

[00:08:25] And I think what companies have realized is that's not enough. That's not enough to build up or it's nest of something compelling to drive a candidate to take action in a market like this where we have two job openings for every one job seeker or less.

[00:08:41] So competitive, just posting a job isn't enough. And so we need to develop more of a content mindset so that we can put out more beautiful sticks so that these little birds can put their nest together and ultimately drive them to take action and show interest in our company follow us engage with us and ultimately apply with us so

[00:09:02] what I think I see is what a lot of companies historically have done just isn't working. It's just not enough to post a job. We have to share a lot more about our culture, our benefits and we have to lead with that candidate centric mindset.

[00:09:20] I always repeat this, John F Kennedy quote us not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country. Similarly, as not what your candidate can do for you. Share what you can do for your candidate so even in your job description your job adds typically we right.

[00:09:37] We need eight years of experience we need an MBA. We need someone to work on site for 40 hours a week.

[00:09:43] Well let's shift that around and say we offer telecommuting benefits we offer a 401k match we offer a great culture of growth and development so just shifting to this candidate centric mindset because this company first mindset isn't enough it's not working so that's kind of where I feel like the importance of developing a content mindset comes in.

[00:10:09] So yeah where would you say like describing that mindset really great analogy like describing that that mindset shift where would you describe from your experience where kind of the exact exacts and stakeholders across the business are at in understanding that particular shift in approach like what's what's the current understanding

[00:10:26] and what's the understanding across that kind of group from your view. Yeah so a lot of my clients are small medium growing businesses, they are at the point where they have a pain point of like, oh my gosh we desperately need mechanical engineers, and we can't find them or we

[00:10:45] can't find them. What else can we do so when customers come to me I feel this pain point of like, people don't know us or what we have done isn't working.

[00:10:56] So that's where I partner with them and really kind of develop their their content strategy of like, alright, well here's where we're at in here's where we want to go so let's make a plan in order to get there and you know in terms of stakeholders.

[00:11:11] This is the eternal employer brand question right like where should employer brand live is this a comms job is this a recruiting job is this a marketing job.

[00:11:20] Sometimes I will have a partner who is marketing sometimes I'm partnering with recruiting at the end of the day everybody needs to be working together but every project needs a champion.

[00:11:32] And so, regardless of whether that champion sits in internal comms sits in recruiting sits in HR. As long as there is someone who is really passionate about developing this content mindset developing a better employee experience and candidate experience.

[00:11:49] I'm all I'm all for it so sometimes I'll partner even with the CEO of a smaller firm that says we, we want to do something different but we don't know how.

[00:11:59] That's where I like to come in and partner with them is that champion and then help develop the content from there.

[00:12:06] Nice. And then like, I really like what you're describing for about okay the the really specific difference on a job at how how does that change when you're thinking more content what what can we offer what can we have we add value to the audience.

[00:12:20] I'd love to you you just go like a bit more deeper on the candidate perspective on that like what is that what is the outside of job ads is like what kind of content matters from a talent and candidate perspective.

[00:12:32] Yeah, that's it. That's a great question I'm so excited about all of these questions. So in marketing. I mean, we all know we're in marketing like we think about these marketing funnels and so you know, if you're buying a new phone.

[00:12:47] You know, we're marketing a new phone we need tons of internal interests at the top and then as you go down you learn more about your options and then at the end you make a purchasing decision and decide on the phone that you want well I think it's the same and

[00:13:00] you know, every position, you know, every opportunity has like we love lots of interest at the top as people funnel down they fall out or recycle them out and then ultimately they make the decision to come work at our company and we make the decision to hire them so

[00:13:16] What I see a lot when I think about like a content marketing funnel is there's a ton of bottom of the funnel content. Hey, go apply. We're hiring now. Come on.

[00:13:28] But I think what a lot of recruitment marketers miss is the middle and the top of the funnel so we've totally forgotten that we can opt people in at the top who can follow our company LinkedIn page, who can read our blog who may come to our

[00:13:45] site, or maybe they're even in the middle they've opted into our talent community. And we haven't sent them an email in three years. We haven't touched base with them.

[00:13:55] You know, they're warm people kind of raising their hands and saying like I'm interested in your company. And I think there's an opportunity to reconnect with them to keep them warm to keep them in the funnel and keep them moving down to the very bottom so

[00:14:08] you know when I think about content opportunities like just moving up the funnel a little bit, not just posting a job at or job description. Hey we're hiring go it's it's hey we have an amazing culture did you know we had a kickball league.

[00:14:23] Did you know we're a best place to work and then thanks so much for opting into our talent community.

[00:14:30] This is something cool that's happening we're having a DevOps meetup or will be at this conference we'd love to meet you that sort of middle the funnel and then. Oh, thanks again for joining the town community, your follow us on LinkedIn, you've been to the conference.

[00:14:43] Hey there's a job that really fits what you're looking for go by. I mean that feels like a really nice funnel so just just a tip and would love to hear in the comments if there's other suggestions but I think there's so much opportunity to kind of look higher of the top of funnel tofu content.

[00:15:01] In the middle of the funnel, just to keep those candidates warm who already raised their hands and expressed interest in our company to keep them moving down into that final job description job at apply now.

[00:15:14] Yeah, I love that. I've been surprised after say I had a number of clients have reached out and started working with me because they're struggling to attract the talent they need.

[00:15:24] The first one of the first steps I do with organizations is then to order their touch points. So what actually what are they doing externally to attract this talent and it's quite surprising that so frequently happens that none of them have even just a half decent careers website they might have some job listings but there's

[00:15:41] literally no content about their organization so I'm like, well there's your first big to me very big obvious missed opportunity there and gap in that. But I guess my nice I said I always think about auditing. Is it what you do with your

[00:15:57] clients around I guess auditing that journey. Yeah, absolutely and I love that idea of like let's beef up the career site if someone's interested enough to look at you let's give them something meaty to to really dig into as as an example of that I have a client and you know their

[00:16:15] career site look like everybody else's career site we have a great culture we have great benefits, like nothing specific but just we're great.

[00:16:23] And so I was like well what makes you great why are you different special better than everybody else and that's where that audit comes in so kind of the ABCs of content strategy I think of is starts with an audit and analysis audit yourself.

[00:16:39] Hey, what's working like, what are we putting out there that is effective. And then what are we putting out there that's not effective at all.

[00:16:48] What are our pain points like do we have tons and tons of applicants, but none of them qualify or tons of applicants that apply and go through the every process but nobody takes our offer, like in which case maybe the issue is at the bottom of the funnel maybe

[00:17:03] our salary is off, or our, you know that conversation takes too long. Where, where are we feeling pain and that's just in conversation with our TA team.

[00:17:14] So, knowing where you're at that that self audit of our, our pain points, you know, our followers are engagement what's working what's not and then analyzing our competitors like what is that blue ocean so a lot of my clients are in the construction

[00:17:31] engineering architecture space. It is typically a very hard job so these are industries that work long hours on weekends on holidays, we're building buildings right so that happens on Christmas Eve and on Saturdays and so when I talked to one client that

[00:17:52] didn't have a solid careers page. I started interviewing their employees and one thing I found was they actually track their hours. So I spoke with their director of engineering and he said, yeah we have a meeting every week, and we project how many hours

[00:18:06] we're working, and we look backwards and we see how many hours the team worked and if it's over 40, we have a conversation, because we really want to keep them at 40 we really care about work life balance. And I was like, tell me more about that.

[00:18:20] That's not something I hear any other construction architecture firms say, and he goes well we're just, we really care about our people we really care about their work life balance we feel like they should go home at the end of the day and be with our family.

[00:18:33] And I was like, no one else is saying that I think that's going to be a core pillar of our content and of our EVP because it's blue ocean. That is something that makes you different better special unique from all of the other ones and so when we

[00:18:49] redesigned their careers page it was really more about tell me a story about work life balance or tell me a story about how the company cared for you and so we pulled out these testimonials that aligned with that content pillar.

[00:19:03] You know, my boss called me on my birthday and you know, we have a kickball league and no one's required to go, you know work on Saturdays it was all stories like that that kind of bundled up under this umbrella of really care about you as a person and we really care about work life balance so

[00:19:22] I'm all that to say like auditing who you are but also knowing what the competitors are so that a candidate can say, yeah I really care about that or really don't really care about that I'm going to go, you know to this to this competitor because

[00:19:37] we all start to look and sound the same that's where that employer blanding really comes in so yeah the audit analysis and then I like to go into the brand strategy of like, who are we targeting, what are we ultimately trying to do are they funneling to our

[00:19:54] career site are they going to a job ad are they talking to a recruiter, are they getting in our telecommunity like what do we want them to do through this piece of content.

[00:20:05] And then ultimately activation of like, alright we're going to put our content out there. It's going to be on LinkedIn and we're going to use Canva and we're going to have Jeanine right and we're going to have Joanne edit and you know kind of

[00:20:20] figuring out the process and the people in the activation is kind of what I see is like a audit analysis be brain strategy and see content activation.

[00:20:32] So that's important in the activation side sorry jay to jump in there, because obviously anyone can have any great ideas. I think it's the challenges actually putting those ideas into action how do you implement how do you operationalize some of those things and

[00:20:47] that's where is a lot more complex. And that's where people like a struggle to be able to generate content scales because it's yeah taking what is an idea through to repeatable actions for people.

[00:20:58] And so I love that you work through that with your clients. Yeah, absolutely and it and it does take time I mean I'm not here to say like, here's a thousand content prompts and you'll finish your years of content in 30 minutes like it really does take time but I'll say, if you figure out

[00:21:13] a strategy that answers a lot of questions about who and how and when I was at a lunch today with a group of social media managers and one of them said like, well should we be on tick tock and I feel like we should I don't know I don't have the bandwidth so

[00:21:30] I guess I just, I think we just won't. So her frame of reference her kind of thought process was like her capacity. You know and I just started thinking like what if your frame of reference your framework was more does it drive the business forward.

[00:21:46] And I'm like, don't worry about capacity. Maybe somebody else can do it maybe an intern whatever but like, you know, you've got to look at it through a lens of strategy and in will this help the business are customers or clients or candidates on tick tock and more than just,

[00:22:34] less than 10% could be 5% could be 1% of people might be active in the job search of the talent you want to target so if everybody's just creating I suppose a campaign or an execution just to go after those people.

[00:22:51] You're competing for a very small part of the potential of the market and the same goes for marketing it's like we think of the same way as like what 1% of people might be active in considering a solution but what about the other 99%. So that that funnels incredible incredibly important and I was going to say as well I think

[00:23:07] with that mindset where I've seen some companies even on the employee brand side do this really well is not just really bringing in embracing kind of the content series side of things as well not just a single piece but a series of content under a common umbrella that has more longevity continuity because as you know right it's like it's

[00:23:26] important from an audience perspective to have some consistency and continue to know what to expect and those kind of things to engage with.

[00:23:33] Now we've got some customers that have done that really well like on their career site bringing a series of common structured videos around the same kind of focus on how to help candidates put their best foot forward in the job application process like really adding value to them making them more successful so yeah couple of really good things there that you're definitely speaking my language.

[00:23:56] That's cool it makes me in your example Jay think about like what are those content pillars that you're always going to talk about kind of your North Star and I mean in our language that's your EVP but you know I know a lot of companies maybe

[00:24:10] are smaller or newer on this journey and don't have an EVP and it's kind of like where do I start and should I just start producing content and I don't know that like developing a full blown EVP is realistic for every single person but I think what you're saying is like that company thought it's really important to us to help job seekers in the journey

[00:24:30] and so to me that's almost like a content pillar of like helping or assistance or care.

[00:24:37] It feels like that's probably important to that company and therefore that's their lens of like okay what are we all about we really care we really care about our job seekers we really care about our customers.

[00:24:48] Let's create a series of videos that align with that care pillar. Let's help them in the job in the job search you know so it that sounds like a great example of a strategic move that also works to help with the candidate experience right like

[00:25:04] candidate experience is so critical so many of my friends have gone through the job search and just said I got ghosted or I was super excited about this firm.

[00:25:13] You know I had an interview but like the people weren't really great or the lobby smelled like cats or whatever it's it's disappointing but I think considering the candidate experience throughout all of those touch points throughout every single piece of content and thinking about how do we care about them and how do we convert them and how do we keep them warm.

[00:25:34] Throughout that entire funnel. Hey the lobby smells like cats if James Ellis was here he'd be saying that could be part of your employer brand your EVP like some crazy cat people. That's your people.

[00:25:46] Some people may want to opt in that culture and some people will opt out like people who are allergic to cats I am going to opt out but that may be a selling point for other people.

[00:25:58] Cool okay I might jump on to the next topic here but yeah just another call out for any comments or questions. For us to if you've got anything for Rachel but I'll keep moving on to the next topic so.

[00:26:10] Yeah this topic just just all about content strategy Rachel just want to take the opportunity to kind of pick your brain on what we can learn about content strategy from your experience.

[00:26:18] And I think one one thing we've learned this may not be always true but there definitely seems to be kind of two camps around when's the right time to do a content strategy.

[00:26:28] A lot of organizations you probably see this as well but it's like and it's probably the perfect way to do it which is to have all of the messaging strategy sort of do all the research build out the messaging EVP the employee branding pillars and then directly transition that to how are we going to content with strategize content around this.

[00:26:44] And then okay well that can't always be the case it's not always possible from a budget resourcing whatever the chaos might be so then you've kind of got.

[00:26:52] Other groups or individuals that are like okay let's just do the content strategy first try to make an impact on some really tactical goals around recruitment and update that when and if we get to do that more formalized investment in messaging so yeah love to hear your thoughts out on that debate like really just around what's the right timing.

[00:27:08] And is there other signals outside of that entirely that suggests it's this or how you identify the right time to go and invest in that strategy.

[00:27:17] Yeah I mean I'm a I'm a realist so you know in a perfect world it would be amazing to birth a company and develop all of our content pillars and develop our messaging and then roll it out.

[00:27:31] I think in reality many of us come into organizations who have mixed messaging or have leadership who has turned over.

[00:27:41] Or the company is pivoting or we have a new product line and we need to find a ton of new developers and so we need to develop messaging so it's not always a blank slate and a fresh sheet of paper when we come in.

[00:27:55] In which case you know I think some content is better than nothing.

[00:28:01] You know I'm part of a group and some people talk about like we really want to make viral content so our goal is just to get as many followers on Instagram as possible we're going to do all these contests and we're just going to go.

[00:28:17] And what I think about when I hear that is like how how is that content tying back to the larger business goals and so I don't advocate just going out there and saying something I think some content is better than nothing but I think focusing on value add content is always going to be the North Star.

[00:28:41] We always want to add value we always want to my son came home with this sheet of paper yesterday he's in first grade and it was a picture of a pie and it has three little sections and you lift up the P and it's persuade in the middle is I for inform and the E is for entertain.

[00:29:01] He's like this is how you tell a story mom you persuade or you inform or entertain and I was like buddy that is so right on when we have content we want to persuade inform or entertain. So thank you. I will.

[00:29:17] Yeah, I know I'm like here I am learning things from my first grader but you know some content is better than nothing because again candidates are looking around for those little sticks and twigs and if there's nothing there.

[00:29:29] There is nothing to draw them in. On the other hand I really want everyone to develop value add content that can persuade inform or entertain that is aligned and on brand so anyway I guess I'm trying to say I think looking for value add content whether you have an e.

[00:29:50] P or not is the way to go. Nice I'll probably I'll have a shot at paraphrasing that and say it's it's along the lines of like well is there an is there a appetite need or opportunity from an audience perspective and putting that to the forefront.

[00:30:07] Rather than just what's happening internally where are you at what's is it. Is it.

[00:30:12] Yeah I'm trying to find a way to simplify but it's yeah it's kind of like putting aside well what's the current state of the business and putting audience first and then well that that could be the right signal if we see opportunities there or potential to add value with audience.

[00:30:25] What's your we've just got a bit of a delay on Rachel side I think what's your kind of experience I'll take been on the kind of debate between timing or any other factors you see in timing for content strategy. Yeah.

[00:30:38] Just like Rachel I'm an ideal world yeah you have your e.p. because then you're quite clear about what are the things you want to be known for as an organization and then you want to be just obviously quite single minded about that and be creating content that is then the evidence that brings that to life in really credible and authentic ways.

[00:30:55] However that's not always possible and if you think about the time it may take to do your research in e.p. definition and get to that point where you're actually ready to start creating content.

[00:31:04] That's basically that can take good 612 months so what can you be doing right now and I think then by thinking about when content can add value straight away.

[00:31:14] And so it's the what is the right type of content and I think having thinking about developing your a good content strategy regardless of your e.p. that's going to help you be a bit more focused on making sure you're creating the right type of content that's going to help achieve and those short term goals.

[00:31:32] Yeah nice.

[00:31:34] And Rachel like coming back to content strategy kind of content strategy 101 I I guess in some ways it can be easy to kind of confuse like a content plan these are the content we're going to create on these topics with the strategy itself so like what does a good like complete strategy look like or what does it cover as a good one oh one for everybody.

[00:31:56] Yeah that's a that's a great question so we were talking about kind of what do you do if you have if you have nothing and I'll give you the example of this engineering client that I had that was desperate for mechanical engineers had very little presence very little content.

[00:32:12] It was kind of like anniversary anniversary anniversary.

[00:32:16] You know in these conversations with their team. I just gleaned like this theme of work life balance that's super important to them and so just basically I'm looking at Gavin's question here like what are some quick wins you can do to implement to just get started on something on your, you know, on your content plan and from your content strategy and one thing that they've done is just taken that theme and used it in a way that

[00:32:42] they can use it in their recruiter messaging so and every outreach message it's like hey we're on this award list we're all about best places to work we're all about work life balance.

[00:32:54] If that's interesting to you, you know let us know so not a full framework not a full strategy but at least there was this kind of core theme that came out that we could start using right away when reaching out to candidates and then incorporated it into the interview

[00:33:11] and thinking about your content plan. You know I look at, let's look at all of these touch points that little birds can pick up those little sticks.

[00:33:23] And I'll give you guys kind of a guide on that later but looking at your career site is a huge one looking at your social is another looking at your employee advocacy and what your people are saying and what they're putting out there is another one because those are.

[00:33:38] However many people you have in your company, the number of marketers and recruiters you have as well. So all of those people are your best advocates for the company so ensuring they have the right message as well.

[00:33:51] I think your question day is like, what is what is the strategy versus what is the plan I mean, I always like to just pause.

[00:34:00] What are we trying to do let's let's develop the strategy and understand who we are, what we want to do and like where is the white space, and then put it into action, and that's where the plan comes in let's empower our people let's include it in our interview

[00:34:16] let's put it on LinkedIn. Let's give this give this puppy wheels and and and let it ride. I really like how you've simplified that I think the reality is we've got a lot of talent acquisition specialists on the call.

[00:34:30] We're talking content strategy it's it's kind of like what is that fun you really demystified and quite simplified what that actually is. Do you include in that strategy any goals and or KPIs ways to measure what success looks like.

[00:34:47] So, I think about success in terms of a partnership you know I'm coming in from the outside and I can't determine what success looks like for you so in our first conversation and in multiple conversations after I'm asking like,

[00:35:02] What is success for you, because it's different for every company I have one client who is desperate for this one type of super super super specific engineer success to them looks like hiring one.

[00:35:16] I have another company that is more of a healthcare company and they are intensely competitive with lots of other brands. They're trying to get their name out there success for them actually looks like their internal team leveraging LinkedIn.

[00:35:33] So, their metric is to have their recruiters active on LinkedIn every week. So, those are very, very different goals that I didn't push on them.

[00:35:43] But I'm asking like, where your pain points and what a success look like to you so I would say that's probably individual to to every client just based on their individual needs but what do you think I'm sure you talk to your clients about their goals and KPIs all the time too.

[00:36:00] No, I love your answer because I'll often get a similar one around how you measure what good looks like or the success or ROI of an employer brand strategy.

[00:36:08] And what are the key or most common metrics and my response is the same it will be different for every organization.

[00:36:14] And I think that's in truly having a strategy first right in actually understanding what are the challenges and problems we're trying to solve here, rather than just doing something for the sake of it. So it's really understanding what what do we need to be solving for.

[00:36:28] And then working out well how we got what does that look like from a measurement perspective how do we measure that how do we know how we're tracking against that goal, and that will look different every time right depending on what that goal is.

[00:36:38] And so that's why I kind of stuck going well just have another can of worms here, often a goal to be an employer choice isn't to me it's what is that it's just so vague there's nothing measurable about that there's nothing specific like that's not a good goal so I think it is it's around really really specific.

[00:36:53] Is it hiring this one certain type is becoming known as maybe an employer choice for that type of talent in that certain industry. And then there be some more specific indicators to show how you're tracking there, but yeah, I'd agree it should be different for everyone.

[00:37:08] Yeah, absolutely. And I'm looking at the chat at Gavin's question about how do companies start keeping candidates warm rather than going out to market every single time they have a role, which I love as a recruiter.

[00:37:22] And, you know, okay we're going to start the search again. When really I think there's a lot of opportunities to start on second or third base sometimes as a recruiter I would love to look back at several metalists.

[00:37:37] So, okay, last time we had this job open. We interviewed all these people. This one was really really close. We just found someone better and they took the offer so let's go back to that number two person and maybe the number three person.

[00:37:51] So just touch base and see if they're still interested. We don't need to start the whole search over we don't have to post a job all over again. Let's start on second base and go contact those people who interviewed last time that were pretty good, maybe the timing was off,

[00:38:04] maybe the compensation was off. Maybe there was just someone a tiny bit more qualified so looking back at silver metalists is great and then I'm a fan of boomerangs as well I mean there are people who used to work with the organization and left because

[00:38:18] of childcare needs compensation growth opportunities, whatever that know you and love you enough to have worked for you before and maybe willing to come back and so I think that's where like talent communities talent pools alumni groups, LinkedIn are really

[00:38:36] great. Easy low hanging fruit to just start working that net. It's your network and identifying people who may be interested, rather than starting at the, at the very beginning so yeah, that's such a it's such a critical and once again missed opportunity for most organizations

[00:38:59] organizations it's they've done the hard work in in attracting the interest of a bunch of candidates which could be as you said by really relevant.

[00:39:08] But then the jobs closed and then the organization doesn't get in contact with them again but that's like really hot it's a warm interested lead.

[00:39:15] How we thinking about nurturing and then actually putting a strategy in place so ensuring we've got the systems obviously to be able to do that effectively, but then what building out that nurture strategy and that's was it that more of that middle

[00:39:26] funnel there it's kind of what content can we be repurposing and reusing for this group of people who are already hot that you're going to have much more impact in converting to a candidate again than those who are unaware of your organization.

[00:39:40] So I think that's such an opportunity to be thinking about. Yeah, how do we keep warm. What is the frequency what types of information do they need to know and having a plan for that.

[00:39:50] Yeah, I love that your your language of the nurture strategy and it it feels like it's so effective for a recruiter, almost just to be designated over an alumni group or over the network over the company alumni LinkedIn page you know it's like, let's keep those relationships

[00:40:09] alive and that's what universities do right they're like come back for homecoming and like, here's the newsletter and we love for you to donate they want to keep that community together for their own purposes but also for the purpose of like this is a group of people who have gone through this

[00:40:27] experience at the same time at the same place and we would love to build those relationships and keep those relationships together. So it's a very intentional strategy that that frankly works when it happens to consumer marketing Mike Jay obviously would know this more than us in consumer marketing.

[00:40:45] So if you're in a world like whether you get to the shopping cart and whether you purchase or not, you're still going to be handed by that organization they've got your details somehow and you're they're going to keep your warm.

[00:40:54] They're going to keep in contact and make sure you then do purchase go through a purchase. I don't know why we don't really apply that that well to the world of talent acquisition.

[00:41:04] I mean, if the company was large enough and they had a large enough alumni of people like you could put a whole probably overkill but you could put a whole strategy around the boomerang strategy of like continually engaging and showing them all the reasons why you probably want to come back at some

[00:41:19] point. Here's all the stories all the good stuff that's happening. Yeah that'd be cool.

[00:41:25] So let's round out this topic. I think that was a good call before around kind of okay some of the what's what could the early wins or the small wins be in the early stages like just pick one message create content to get that one particular

[00:41:41] complete set of employee branding pillars but there's opportunity to get those messages that you know are a good fit and are compelling for the type of talent or the specific segments of talent having challenges in attracting or you want to attract better so that's a good call.

[00:41:56] I just want to round it out as well with like kind of just going one layer deeper on content strategy I'd love to hear just what what are you seeing or even working on perhaps but just around kind of content mix like what are some of the forms of content

[00:42:10] that you're seeing out in the market right now that you think are really doing a great job of delivering that message in a way that candidates would love to engage with.

[00:42:18] Yes, what I typically see is companies have one mode that they're most comfortable in and it feels a little uncomfortable to go outside of that so as a writer personally I'm like I'm always going to write and then like for me to make a video feels a little uncomfortable

[00:42:39] but it gives people a more well rounded sense of who I am or what my business offers and so you know I definitely see value in finding a mix of content.

[00:42:52] And I also think looking at your audience and what do they engage with what locations are they going to engage going back to this conversation today will should we be on tick tock.

[00:43:03] I don't know. Well, are your are your customers or your clients or candidates on tick tock and if so it could be worth investing in video content for tick tock if that is part of the larger business strategy and you're finding the right people there but generally I see I see so much value

[00:43:21] in like this mix of content but as video has become more and more popular I just feel like it it breaks this fourth wall like you know what I sound like you know what I look like you can see my mannerisms you know I think there's so much engagement that

[00:43:37] can come from video that we can't get from still photos or from blogs or just from testimonials you know some of the most meaningful content pieces there's one that like I'll never forget it's a story of a nurse during coven.

[00:43:53] I was just kind of like walking down the halls and changing our shoes and it was like, oh my god, like being a nurse is so hard I see you like I hear it I can, you know, experience this with you.

[00:44:07] But this job is so powerful and so meaningful you know I think I think video can just be so so compelling. So, again, this is this is your world.

[00:44:18] Yeah, I mean obviously this is this is the whole thing we live and breathe every day but I mean I think you know speaking different people like yourself like brought more broadly in the market I think the really interesting examples are when people have go well.

[00:44:30] It's okay what what is the best form or method to capture this particular story or how do we want to take it to market and really interesting examples of stories is like when people do side by side comparison of okay.

[00:44:43] For example, you know job ads do like post like a written job ad with a link to it versus a video in the feed where people can consume that piece of content and to be more engaged or more engaging than just the preview of a link and seeing significantly higher click through rates or response rates to those kind of things so I think that's what

[00:45:03] That's what it gets really interesting is when you're comparing side by side and not to say it's like yeah like you're saying before it's about it's still about the mix because one of one of the things we do in my team but I think is also a really good opportunity in any content strategies

[00:45:18] even if you are say leading with video like we do there's that creates a lot of opportunities to create secondary pieces of content which are written versions or graphical versions and I think yeah it's when you've got like an audio or video version to start with you can then create other derivatives of that quite easily and you get five for one deal you create one piece of video and you can do five more pieces of content off the back of that so I think that's that's what gets really interesting when you're thinking about the mix of content at the same time.

[00:45:43] Totally I love that you brought that up. I am such a fan of recycling in real life and with content to but I mean similarly like if you know you have a blog you can take out a little clip and you can make it into a testimonial I mean I do video interviews all the time with employees so we have the video but I can create a testimonial and then I can write a blog article and then we have a clip for their career site and then we can make a social post out of it so I love that idea of like

[00:46:14] let's squeeze the lemon for as much as it's worth let's take one piece of content and develop five out of it and starting with video is such a efficient way to do.

[00:46:24] Yeah I think I think it's a necessity these days like you're trying to do more with less budget and to be able to do those things is very achievable and you know less time like same time effort and you're getting multiple pieces of content just and it really helps you stay more consistent as well it's like derivatives will help you have more content to fill out the week or the

[00:46:44] calendar and things like that and always having to think of something new. And you know I'm on a roll now it also makes me think about it's like even if we're talking so sure it's like if we posted that particular topic at that time.

[00:46:57] Like should we post again or not or in a different format people don't want to see it again. It's like what's the chances of people seeing this exactly those same people seeing them or did they definitely see it last time.

[00:47:06] It's good I think it's better to not assume that everybody saw it 100% because you know it's pretty competitive to get a spot in the feed and get people's attention so repetition is also valuable. I agree. Absolutely.

[00:47:24] I want to jump in with the question because we see we're running shorter on time and it's something that's slightly off topic but totally related. I know that you're really passionate about personal branding Rachel and I really admire people like yourself.

[00:47:38] I wish I had more time and was better at doing it because I know the benefits of investing in your personal brand. But can you share a little bit about why you're so passionate about personal branding and how it relates to our world of TA and employer branding.

[00:47:51] Yeah absolutely. I am a fan of personal branding because I've seen the impact that it makes on my business my relationships and my opportunities so I got on LinkedIn when I started working at the container store just as a lurker not as a poster.

[00:48:11] And use it for recruitment purposes I mean just reaching out to people hey would you be interested in working for us blah blah blah and then I just started sharing like my experience of what it felt like to come back from maternity leave and a company that really cared about kind of the whole person so here's just my experience I've always been a writer.

[00:48:32] And so sharing that experience I found resonated with people other kind of new parents to the workforce came up and talked to me about it and so you know I just started interviewing other employees like simple stuff like what did you think about like the cafeteria we have an on site cafeteria.

[00:48:51] You know we're serving ice cream today photos of that. So I just started kind of sharing employee stories just because I thought it was interesting and fun and funny.

[00:49:03] And then when I started my business I posted on LinkedIn I said my name is Rachel I just started this business if anybody needs anything let me know and within two hours I had a former colleague reach out and say yes we need someone to interview our people and create a new business.

[00:49:22] And so I started creating a blog highlighting our leaders and their stories and I think you'd be great for it so it was like my first customer came because of LinkedIn I mean it was because of a previous relationship but there was no other way we would have reconnected had it not been for LinkedIn and had it not been for me sharing my story and what was happening in my life to and so since then I've had you know podcast opportunities

[00:49:48] and relationships with people across the globe. But I'm really sharing my story it's this merging of professional and personal that I think is the development of your personal brand and I've just gotten so many great opportunities because of it a lot of times I love to help people develop their personal brand because I want them to experience these opportunities that have come to me.

[00:50:14] And just rolling on from that Rachel as well. Can you talk through because one of the topic like almost every single time like when we have these sessions and we get down to okay what are some of the best things you can do an employer branding if you don't have much budget or resource like second to content is the advocacy piece and finding employee

[00:50:32] advocates so what's kind of your view on the overlap or the association between personal branding side of things and then the advocacy side of things that's so important for employer branding.

[00:50:43] Yeah you know I think everyone you've had on your show is probably had a great personal brand I think of Alex her and James Ellis I mean these people have really become thought leaders because they're sharing what's happening in their organizations are in the employer brand space and therefore they have more visibility.

[00:51:06] And also now I think of go daddy when I think of Alex. You know so there are these associations in your mind when I love Sarah Blake Lee who started Spanx when I think of Sarah I think of Spanx and vice versa.

[00:51:21] And she's a great example of someone who is built an incredible brand and has this very strong personal brand that I think supports each other and so I think if you have no budget but you really want a strong employer brand.

[00:51:36] Developing your personal brand to support that employer brand can help as well in their ways to do that when I think about like this Venn diagram of like core culture content and personal content there there is overlap there right like we work for organizations that probably have some similar values that we do.

[00:52:00] I worked with the National Breast Cancer Foundation here locally and rewrote their job ads job descriptions messaging. And again it was like we need eight years of experience and someone with development experience and and I said hold on.

[00:52:14] You guys have this mission to change the way women experience breast cancer you're offering support during a very very challenging time like let's lead with the mission and so we changed the messaging.

[00:52:26] But when I look at their employees like they are incredible personal advocates mostly because most of them have experienced or have someone in their family who has experienced breast cancer and so personally like they have a closet full of pink clothes.

[00:52:42] They are all about supporting this mission and so we've just talked about OK how can we share this personal passion that you have that also aligns with this company brand.

[00:52:54] Online and so you know as I dig into these stories it's like you know my mother experienced this I've just always had a passion for this organization and so when a job popped up.

[00:53:07] It aligned with my personal values and I decided to apply. OK well great now let's tell that story like I you know why are you passionate about it this personal brand.

[00:53:17] I'm personally passionate about this mission and then your professional your employer brand we're a great place to work because we help people in this very difficult time like think about where those two content pillars intersect man that is that is super content.

[00:53:33] It is it is absolutely but it's like we know how important I guess this having a strong and personal brand is for I think talent traction for an organization.

[00:53:42] It's all well and good for us employer brand is to say hey we need our leaders to have strong personal brands and to be built but focused on building theirs out but the reality is in many cases they're technical people they're not.

[00:53:55] They're not writers they're not marketers so it's something that's not really natural for them and they really don't know where to start.

[00:54:01] I found so I think in my experience it's learning learn it's around how you can help equip those people with these skills understanding the importance of them doing that and the reach and impact they can have and then holding their hand through that process to help them build out their brand.

[00:54:17] So whether it be updating their LinkedIn profiles for them whether it be working out what are the topics of passion for them that they can have a voice on and helping them write some content or articles or.

[00:54:28] Speeding them some content that they can share in the networks when you get that right it's amazing how then these incredible leaders can have such an impact on your the attraction of talent to the organization but it's just so untapped.

[00:54:43] You're so right and you know I think about the LinkedIn algorithm always prioritizing personal content over company content right if the same people in the company post the same thing at the same time.

[00:54:54] The personal content is going to exceed that and I think people trust people right not brands and so yes hearing from the CEO of this company means a lot more to me than whatever marketing speak comes from the company corporate page and so.

[00:55:09] You're right their job is not to develop to be a content creator their job is to run the business and so our job as marketing internal comms employer brand is to hold their hand like you said free partner with them show them the light show them the way hey I drafted this does this feel like you does this feel right do you mind if I post this is this okay.

[00:55:31] Hey let's just touch up your profile. Let's tweak this messaging. Let's add this you know hey best places to work award. Let's make sure you have the brand image on your LinkedIn background photo.

[00:55:45] All of those little things can can make a big difference and I think that's where our value as employer brand champions come in to hold their hand and guide them through that process.

[00:55:55] Yeah it's a good message what you're saying for as well Rachel which is the the TA folks or the employee brand managers out there not necessarily.

[00:56:06] Kind of feeling like they need to be behind the front line of getting the message out to market of it has to come through an employee who's in the role of those kind of things I know all the TA kind of people I'm connected with.

[00:56:17] I love hearing from their perspective and then sharing the stories on behalf of the organization.

[00:56:23] I think it's a good message that demonstrates their passion and their own advocacy for what a great place it is to work there even if it's not firsthand from the person telling the story or even if it's their story there's a few good people out there that.

[00:56:36] Yeah their brands are much more front of mind for me now thinking less you know from a talent perspective because of what their folks have been able to do on social media so. It's a good message.

[00:56:46] We're pretty much coming up on time so we might call the questions there and just go on to the home stretch Rachel so hope you've got if you remember we've got this section at the end where we we've got a question that's passed on from the past guest so.

[00:57:01] We got a question here from Alex her for you that we're going to play on video and get your thoughts on have you got your question ready for the for the next guest as well so but we'll go with the question from Alex first.

[00:57:12] Um alright so I think we had a good one there but for me it would be what do you wish you knew about employer branding that she didn't know before he got into it. Okay. It's very very open ended.

[00:57:28] Look forward to hearing that one from from Rachel next time. Yeah thanks Alex. I'll have to thank him for that one. You know I think an employer brand we influence one of the biggest decisions someone can make in their career.

[00:57:45] And I think there's there's great power in that and there's great responsibility. You know I I find so much meaning in the work that we do because.

[00:57:58] I'm not selling a car I'm not selling a phone like I'm helping someone connect with an organization that they can massively change their life they're going to spend more hours at work than they do often with their families and so.

[00:58:11] For me and my role knowing that I am. Working with clients who really care about their people who really care about their their work and upholding that and shining a light on those companies and attracting more talent to it.

[00:58:28] Is incredibly impactful so I don't know that I knew that when I got into it but I but I find so much meaning in the work that we do.

[00:58:38] So you so you're wishing you how many good feels there would be in the work itself you might have started sooner. Yes all it feels all it feels I yeah absolutely. Yeah nice on okay yeah so we.

[00:58:54] Yeah keen to get your question now we're going to take a little recording of your question for the next guest and we'll keep the chain going.

[00:59:02] All right all right so I was thinking about this today and we have so much going on we are doing so much you know if we're in marketing employer brain internal comms recruiting we have tons and tons of tactics and strategies and ton on our plate every day.

[00:59:20] My question is what is on your stop doing list. What is not important what do you not need to worry about in our work and employer brand. I love a stop list stop lists are the best. I don't have an answer but I am very curious to hear.

[00:59:41] All right well we're going to find out next time what's on the stop list.

[00:59:46] Cool well that brings us to the end so yeah thanks again to our live audience and co host resident employee brand expert Bri and of course our lovely guest today Rachel thanks for coming on.

[00:59:59] Actually one more thing before we wrap up we've got you've given us a little bonus gift kind of item I don't should I pump it up too much I don't know. Bonus yeah for the audience want to tell everybody what that is.

[01:00:11] Yes I wanted to give you guys a free bonus for coming today.

[01:00:17] I'm super excited to offer my content audit checklist so what I find is a lot of times we don't know where to start like how are we doing where is our content where do we go where do we put it how are we doing.

[01:00:32] So what I did is put together 50 different points on that employer brand audit so I talked about the birds nest they're all of these sticks and twigs.

[01:00:41] I've laid all those out for you between your career site your social media your LinkedIn glass store indeed so that you can just have this checklist and say yep we've got that on our career site yep we've outlined your benefits yep we've got great job descriptions without bias.

[01:00:57] So just use this as a checklist you can download it and go through and kind of see where you're already rocking and just where some other places need a little bit of love so that is what I made for you guys today.

[01:01:14] Beautiful that's great okay well if you'd like to be kept up to date with all of our live sessions the highlights as well as the recordings and everything make sure you jump on to LinkedIn follow the video my job page that'll also give you a little prompt to subscribe to the talk show.

[01:01:27] I'll be putting the link in the description below and I'll be putting the link in the description below and I'll be putting the link in the description below so that's it for today so we'll see you guys next month thank you. Bye. Thank you bye. Alright done.

[01:01:43] Thanks for watching that was great.